Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts, LA blocks

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SquealinWheelin

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If we have a machined LA block, core plugs and cam bearings installed, a pre-covid HFT camshaft, yet don't have lifters yet, should I give up on the hydraulic Flat Tappet setup, and go retro roller$$? Mechanical flat Tappet? or risk failure? Of course on a tight budget...What would you do?

-3600 pound car, 2.76 gears, manual transmission, 360, going for daily driver.

Allot of failures out there with the new parts and oils .
 
Find some factory lifters & have them re-faced, good to go.
And what's the magic lobe taper spec we should be checking? I need to find that thread that shows the bad lifter crowns. Something everyone installing a cam should know about.
 
I use NOS Johnson Hyd. lifter from the last century
and cast billets from the same period.
I try to find cams that are stamped "CWC" on
they as they are superior cast iron in my opinion
and have never failed me.
 
Covid is not some kinda landmark between good cams and bad, so I don't know where that came from. This problem with bullcrap metallurgy or "whatever it is" has covid predated by a long time. So yeah, I'd be concerned.
 
If we have a machined LA block, core plugs and cam bearings installed, a pre-covid HFT camshaft, yet don't have lifters yet, should I give up on the hydraulic Flat Tappet setup, and go retro roller$$? Mechanical flat Tappet? or risk failure? Of course on a tight budget...What would you do?

-3600 pound car, 2.76 gears, manual transmission, 360, going for daily driver.

Allot of failures out there with the new parts and oils .
Another factor if going to the roller rockers is valve spring pressure. I can't help you with your decision.
 
According to Don Hubbard's Camshaft book, the lifter radius is 0.0017-0.0024".
 
In my opinion, all engines should be built with roller lifters. This allows better durability and eliminates oil issues.
 
If we have a machined LA block, core plugs and cam bearings installed, a pre-covid HFT camshaft, yet don't have lifters yet, should I give up on the hydraulic Flat Tappet setup, and go retro roller$$? Mechanical flat Tappet? or risk failure? Of course on a tight budget...What would you do?

-3600 pound car, 2.76 gears, manual transmission, 360, going for daily driver.

Allot of failures out there with the new parts and oils .
This has been discussed at meant several times and several videos have surfaced about this topic. I’ve written up a few times a check list and procedures on checks of parts and operation.

In a nutshell…..

Make sure you lifters have a bevel on the cam face side, (camshaft lobe must also have this) rotate in there bores freely and when it’s assembled. Isky can break in lube, pre lube the engines system, start up and run as close to instant as possible, frequently change the break in oil, add in an additive if need be.

My one and only HFT failure has come from me not checking the lifters ability to spin in its bore.

Almost 40 years of fooling around, swapping camshafts for the run of it, experimenting for the fun of it, only one failure. Several of the supposed “COVID” cams used, 1 failure due to my bad actions.

This will not guarantee your success.
 
My first question would be what cam?
Cuz with 2.76s , and a 2.66 First gear, that car will easily hit 60/65 in first gear........................ even with the stock cam.
If the long-block is still at 8/1 compression, and your Intake closing angle is significantly later than stock, at 3600 pounds, the bottom of first gear is gonna be really lazy.
If it's gonna be a true DD, I highly recommend to get this sorted out now, before any assembly takes place.
The factory 360 2bbl cam is actually pretty good for an 8/1 DD
 
My first question would be what cam?
Cuz with 2.76s , and a 2.66 First gear, that car will easily hit 60/65 in first gear........................ even with the stock cam.
If the long-block is still at 8/1 compression, and your Intake closing angle is significantly later than stock, at 3600 pounds, the bottom of first gear is gonna be really lazy.
If it's gonna be a true DD, I highly recommend to get this sorted out now, before any assembly takes place.
The factory 360 2bbl cam is actually pretty good for an 8/1 DD

100%+ behind this. Bang on!
 
Of course on a tight budget...What would you do?

-3600 pound car, 2.76 gears, manual transmission, 360, going for daily driver.
What would I do?
Well in your case, with the block on the table;
The first thing I'd do is figure out if I can afford some quench-type heads, and high-compression pistons.

But if no, heads are out, then; how am I gonna get this thing to run detonation-free, at higher than the factory paltry 130/140psi (sealevel) cranking cylinder pressure.

And once I get to too much pressure (hard to do with open-chamber heads), then I can think about a cam kit.

The biggest hinderance to your car, is the combination of 3600 pounds plus the 2.76 gears. As for the weight, you can't do much about that. But it takes a lotta lotta torque to pull a starter gear of 2.76 x 2.66= 7.34, with any kind of performance. (which is almost like starting in Second gear with 3.73 x 1.92= 7.16).
Now; torque at idle, which your combo is gonna need, comes from cylinder pressure. and
A bigger than stock cam, with a later than stock intake closing angle, will only make less pressure, with no other changes.

Now, if you're NOT planning on headers, then you can advance the crap out of the stock cam, and pick up maybe 10 psi, in the stock engine, but at the expense of high-rpm power, which with 2.76 gears, and a dead overlap period, you don't need to care about anyway.
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Just so you know, in the past, I have installed that 360 2bbl cam into a lo-compression 4bbl-318, heavily advanced, with 2.76 gears, but with the A833od; and it ran really well, with 5500rpm valve-springs. The key in that combo was the 3.09 x 2.76= 8.53 starter gear (also in a ~3600 pound car.) That's 16% more than your 7.34, and makes the 318 feel just about that much bigger..
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Honestly tho, a low-pressure engine needs a starter gear closer to 10:1, like
3.73 x 2.66= 9.92 if a 360, or
3.91 x 2.66=10.40 if a 318.
Or
grab a 3.09 Commando trans, @
3.23 x 3.09= 9.98
2.94 x 3.09= 9.08
2.76 x 3.09= 8.53
All that gear-multiplication monkey-business can be avoided with either more cubic inches, less vehicle weight, or more cylinder pressure.
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And your car, depending on the year of the trans, could easily have the close ratio trans in it, with a 2.47 first gear, making the starter gear even lower at
2.76 x 2.47= 6.82 which is identical to my SECOND gear of
3.55 x 1.92= 6.82
This is not good :(
 
If we have a machined LA block, core plugs and cam bearings installed, a pre-covid HFT camshaft,

-3600 pound car, 2.76 gears, manual transmission, 360, going for daily driver.

Tell us more about what you have. The description above is a little vague. So far, you have a 3600lbs. car w/a 4spd trans and 2.76 gears with a 360 ready to be built for driving.

If you need pistons, I’d use ether the KB-107 or the Federal Mougal 116hp pistons. I would not have them set at a zero deck height but just measure where they sit, as in how far down in the cylinder they are. Last 360 I did had the KB-107’s sitting .020 down in the cylinder. Combine it with a .038 or a .050 head gasket results in a 9.04-1 to a 9.27-1 compression ratio if your using the stock cylinder heads at a possible 72 cc chamber. This will allow for 87 octane.

You didn’t state what the camshaft specs are. That would be really helpful. I’ll continue with as if I was doing this and I don’t have a cam. The intake duration would not exceed 210@050.
I’ll leave it at that.

Considering your very tall 2.76 year ratio, a larger cam might cause an unfavorable dead spot condition in power down low.

Are you using headers? A 4bbl carb? What size tire?
 
My first question would be what cam?
Cuz with 2.76s , and a 2.66 First gear, that car will easily hit 60/65 in first gear........................ even with the stock cam.
If the long-block is still at 8/1 compression, and your Intake closing angle is significantly later than stock, at 3600 pounds, the bottom of first gear is gonna be really lazy.
If it's gonna be a true DD, I highly recommend to get this sorted out now, before any assembly takes place.
The factory 360 2bbl cam is actually pretty good for an 8/1 DD
I've used the melling spd25 ( listed as their stock replacement 360-2bbl cam) in a couple of otherwise stock 318s for a noticeable improvement, in a cruiser/ daily driver. It's a dead ringer for the comp 252 except for only 15-thou less lift. Rest of specs are dead nuts exactly the same as the comp
 
LMAO! used that exact cam in my trucks 360
 
I've used the melling spd25 ( listed as their stock replacement 360-2bbl cam) in a couple of otherwise stock 318s for a noticeable improvement, in a cruiser/ daily driver. It's a dead ringer for the comp 252 except for only 15-thou less lift. Rest of specs are dead nuts exactly the same as the comp
Good info Don. There was a 360 4 barrel right? I wonder what cam they used there?
 
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