Hydraulic Roller Lifters

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JoJo

JoJo

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I'm in the process of rebuilding my 318 which is a '77 model. While browsing for a set of lifters on eBay, I came across a few sets of factory roller lifters. The thought of adding them for a small gain wouldn't hurt anything, but the one question came to mind... Will it work?

Thought about running the factory cam, but also have my eyes on a Speed Pro Hydraulic camshaft, 2600-6200 rpm range, 290 intake/ 319 exhaust adv. duration, duration @ .050 of 222 intake and 232 exhaust, Vavle lift of .447 intake and .450 exhaust, Lobe C/L is 112.
 
2600 to 6200 ??? is this a street car ?? if so ide get a cam that makes power off idel,,, like 1500 too 5000
 
the 1977 318 block is not set up for the roller lifters from the later LA-engines. As far as i know you can´t use this lifters in this block.

And you can´t use a flat tappet cam with this roller lifters, should be a "roller cam" with different lobe profiles.

Michael
 
360duster said:
the 1977 318 block is not set up for the roller lifters from the later LA-engines. As far as i know you can´t use this lifters in this block. And you can´t use a flat tappet cam with this roller lifters, should be a "roller cam" with different lobe profiles.
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What he said. You need to get a "retrofit" roller cam set up for a '77 block. This is because the older blocks have shallower lifter bores and the older blocks don't have the mounting bosses to hold the bracket that keeps the lifters located.

Also cam must be ground for roller lifters to work correctly. You can't run a flat tappet cam with roller lifters.
 
340sFastback said:
What he said. You need to get a "retrofit" roller cam set up for a '77 block. This is because the older blocks have shallower lifter bores and the older blocks don't have the mounting bosses to hold the bracket that keeps the lifters located.

Also cam must be ground for roller lifters to work correctly. You can't run a flat tappet cam with roller lifters.
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All of the above regarding the lack of mounting bosses...aside from which, that cam is pure junk. Waaaay too much seat timing and a very mild lobe. Duration @ .050" is plenty for a street 318 (maybe a little too much for a pure street car) but not enough lift given the duration.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

fstfish66 - Yes, this will be a street/strip type of setup. Already have 4-bbl carb & intake, Mallory distributor, Summit Street/Strip coil, electric fuel pump & fan. Bottom end will be stock with standard bore. Looking to add a set of 340 heads after the rebuild.

360duster - I had that feeling.

340sFastback - So, it's similar to the old & new style 350 blocks with the "spider" to hold down the lifters?

MoparAnglia - What about these cam specs: Lift: .447/.447, Duration: 291/291, Duration @ .050": 223/223, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

I'm just trying to choose a cam that will improve power and performance, but not kill it. This is my first time rebuilding a 318 engine and getting technical with improving performance cam wise.
 
JoJo said:
Thanks for the feedback.

fstfish66 - Yes, this will be a street/strip type of setup. Already have 4-bbl carb & intake, Mallory distributor, Summit Street/Strip coil, electric fuel pump & fan. Bottom end will be stock with standard bore. Looking to add a set of 340 heads after the rebuild.

360duster - I had that feeling.

340sFastback - So, it's similar to the old & new style 350 blocks with the "spider" to hold down the lifters?

MoparAnglia - What about these cam specs: Lift: .447/.447, Duration: 291/291, Duration @ .050": 223/223, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

I'm just trying to choose a cam that will improve power and performance, but not kill it. This is my first time rebuilding a 318 engine and getting technical with improving performance cam wise.
Click to expand...


Okay, keeping the tech relatively basic, the 318 suffers from a lack of static compression from the factory mainly due to the pistons sitting way below the deck surface at TDC. What this means is that dynamic compression (which factors in rod length and cam timing) can become unacceptably low with a long duration cam. You want a cam which closes the intake valve relatively soon after the piston reaches BDC. All else being equal, this means shorter duration on the intake lobes.

I'm sure others could chime in with specific cam recommendations but something like a Comp 270H Magnum grind might be a good choice or a little milder with a High Energy 268. Other brands are available!
 
JoJo said:
Thanks for the feedback.

fstfish66 - Yes, this will be a street/strip type of setup. Already have 4-bbl carb & intake, Mallory distributor, Summit Street/Strip coil, electric fuel pump & fan. Bottom end will be stock with standard bore. Looking to add a set of 340 heads after the rebuild.

360duster - I had that feeling.

340sFastback - So, it's similar to the old & new style 350 blocks with the "spider" to hold down the lifters?

MoparAnglia - What about these cam specs: Lift: .447/.447, Duration: 291/291, Duration @ .050": 223/223, Lobe Separation: 112 LC

I'm just trying to choose a cam that will improve power and performance, but not kill it. This is my first time rebuilding a 318 engine and getting technical with improving performance cam wise.
Click to expand...


Oh, forgot to say, you're bang on with the 350 ch*vy analogy.
 
MoparAnglia said:
Okay, keeping the tech relatively basic, the 318 suffers from a lack of static compression from the factory mainly due to the pistons sitting way below the deck surface at TDC. What this means is that dynamic compression (which factors in rod length and cam timing) can become unacceptably low with a long duration cam. You want a cam which closes the intake valve relatively soon after the piston reaches BDC. All else being equal, this means shorter duration on the intake lobes.

I'm sure others could chime in with specific cam recommendations but something like a Comp 270H Magnum grind might be a good choice or a little milder with a High Energy 268. Other brands are available!
Click to expand...

Yeah, the compression of the 318 is a heart breaker. I want a cam with a noticeable/lopey idle, but performance is also a main. I will browse Summit and a few more places for a cam in that range.

MoparAnglia said:
Oh, forgot to say, you're bang on with the 350 ch*vy analogy.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
Putting on 340 or 360 heads will drop the compression quite a bit. If you can find some 302 casting heads or swap over to magnum heads those are closed chamber and will keep compression up. Either that or do a 3 angle valve job with some pocket porting and gasket matching on the stock heads and put them back on.

318 is a good engine except for the pistons sitting down in the hole. Swap in pistons to raise that compression up, put on 360 heads, and a 318 will run like a 340. But that might not be in your budget.

By the way a replacement 340 cam would not be a bad way to go. Next step up would be the Comp Cams 268 that is a step up over the stock 340 cam.
 
340sFastback said:
Putting on 340 or 360 heads will drop the compression quite a bit. If you can find some 302 casting heads or swap over to magnum heads those are closed chamber and will keep compression up. Either that or do a 3 angle valve job with some pocket porting and gasket matching on the stock heads and put them back on.

318 is a good engine except for the pistons sitting down in the hole. Swap in pistons to raise that compression up, put on 360 heads, and a 318 will run like a 340. But that might not be in your budget.

By the way a replacement 340 cam would not be a bad way to go. Next step up would be the Comp Cams 268 that is a step up over the stock 340 cam.
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A thinner head gasket wouldn't do the trick? A gentleman told me to invest in a 3-angle valve job and I would be amazed about the little 318. Thought about making a stroker motor out of it, but was having second thoughts. I decided to go back with the factory rotating assembly.

Yes, the almighty 340 cam. My dad and I mentioned this earlier in our discussion. I've read about it before and also heard it mentioned a few times. I know Comp Cams offer the "Magnum Muscle" 268AH-10 and the "High Energy" 268H.
 
sireland67 said:
2x on the 340 grind.

If you have the extra cash spring for some pistons to raise the compression, probabbly the most bang per buck you can do to a 318. Something similar to these.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB167-STD/
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:sad: I've already purchased factory pistons, rods, and crank a few months back. Didn't think about raising the compression then and decided I would leave it stock. :violent1:
 
Too bad you already bought pistons cause that is what that engine really needs is the right pistons to get that compression up. Once you raise up compression then bolt on 340/360 heads it will run good. But with those pistons in the hole and the big chamber heads compression will be low. Thinner head gaskets will help but compression will still be low. You can play around with some numbers here:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
 
340sFastback said:
Too bad you already bought pistons cause that is what that engine really needs is the right pistons to get that compression up. Once you raise up compression then bolt on 340/360 heads it will run good. But with those pistons in the hole and the big chamber heads compression will be low. Thinner head gaskets will help but compression will still be low. You can play around with some numbers here:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
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The pistons cam with the crank and rods I purchased from a member here. I will take that into consideration when I pull my other 318 in my '90 Dodge D150. I'll keep an eye open for the magnum heads or 302 castings. If I cannot find any close by, I'll have to have the stock heads worked.
 
Elgin:
Lift: .454/.454, Duration: 272/272, Duration @ .050": 216/216, Lobe Separation: 110 LC

Comp Cams:
Lift: .454/.454, Duration: 268/268, Duration @ .050": 218/218, Lobe Separation: 110 LC

Herbert:
RPM Range: 1200-5700, Advertised Duration: 270/280, Duration @ .050: 215/225, Lift: .440/.465, Lobe Center: 112c

With the Elgin and Comp cam, would there be a huge difference in those two cams? Also, what is the benefit of the Herbert cam having a longer exhaust duration for a SB Chrysler? Would it help or hurt performance?
 
JoJo said:
Elgin:
Lift: .454/.454, Duration: 272/272, Duration @ .050": 216/216, Lobe Separation: 110 LC

Comp Cams:
Lift: .454/.454, Duration: 268/268, Duration @ .050": 218/218, Lobe Separation: 110 LC

Herbert:
RPM Range: 1200-5700, Advertised Duration: 270/280, Duration @ .050: 215/225, Lift: .440/.465, Lobe Center: 112c

With the Elgin and Comp cam, would there be a huge difference in those two cams? Also, what is the benefit of the Herbert cam having a longer exhaust duration for a SB Chrysler? Would it help or hurt performance?
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The Elgin and Comp grinds look to be pretty similar from the specs given, with the Comp probably having a slight edge due to a slightly more aggressive lobe.

The bigger exhaust lobe on the Herbert cam will help on an engine with a comparatively weak exhaust. That's from the valve to exhaust tip. Mopar small blocks tend to have quite a good exhaust port so I'd say if you are planning on running headers and decent-flowing mufflers then it might not provide any benefit.
 
MoparAnglia said:
The Elgin and Comp grinds look to be pretty similar from the specs given, with the Comp probably having a slight edge due to a slightly more aggressive lobe.

The bigger exhaust lobe on the Herbert cam will help on an engine with a comparatively weak exhaust. That's from the valve to exhaust tip. Mopar small blocks tend to have quite a good exhaust port so I'd say if you are planning on running headers and decent-flowing mufflers then it might not provide any benefit.
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I have factory manifolds off a newer model 318 or 360 engine (suppose to flow well from what I was told) with 2 1/4" pipe that stops at the cross member and two Summit 4" glasspacks.
 
JoJo said:
A thinner head gasket wouldn't do the trick? A gentleman told me to invest in a 3-angle valve job and I would be amazed about the little 318. Thought about making a stroker motor out of it, but was having second thoughts. I decided to go back with the factory rotating assembly.

Yes, the almighty 340 cam. My dad and I mentioned this earlier in our discussion. I've read about it before and also heard it mentioned a few times. I know Comp Cams offer the "Magnum Muscle" 268AH-10 and the "High Energy" 268H.
Click to expand...

Any decent valve job is 3 angle, think about it.
 
green1 said:
Any decent valve job is 3 angle, think about it.
Click to expand...

True. I'm just so use of people around me saying port & polished and never go into details. When I heard 3-angle valve job, I had to do some research of my own, lol.
 
If the piston are still in the box, you could trade them up for higher compression pistons.
 
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