Hydro-boost questions (looking for data)

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70chall440

70chall440

Mopar or No Car...
Joined
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Location
Yelm WA
Let me start by saying if you don't like these systems and don't understand why anyone would do it, then please don't post; this thread is about how/what to use not whether you should not not.

I am going to post this on FBBO as well.

I have been researching this issue for some time and I have seen a lot of information, kits, videos, etc. However, what I have not found is a lot of details. People say they have installed them, have one, etc. but not a lot of detail about what they installed or are using. I am not real interested in the various kits, what I am interested in is systems which were put together; meaning sourcing a HB unit from some other application.

I have looked at the Astro Van and Dodge diesel PU system and I would prefer to use the Dodge variant bc I would like to use a Mopar MC.

What I am wanting to know specifically is what people have used and how they have made it work. I am wondering if the Dodge unit can be disassembled (meaning the firewall plate can be removed) and if the rod (the one that goes from the HB to the pedal) can be removed and modified.

I appreciate any information anyone can share, pictures would be awesome.
 
I have many more and can post later with the LA setup however it works with a Big block no problem..... Even with Cast Valvecovers.

I have used it on 2 personal cars and installed it on another. Very simple IMO. I am told the Saginaw pump is best for it. When you use the right MC and have an Adjustable PV on the rear brakes it's a sweet deal. I got mine as a kit and would have to look up who but many vendors sell them.

And yes, some people bash it. Don't care. They don't pay my bills or eat at my dinner table...

JW

Image1908823760.jpg
 
Hot Rod has an article on this subject in the latest issue.
 
SLOPAR72 said:
I have many more and can post later with the LA setup however it works with a Big block no problem..... Even with Cast Valvecovers.

I have used it on 2 personal cars and installed it on another. Very simple IMO. I am told the Saginaw pump is best for it. When you use the right MC and have an Adjustable PV on the rear brakes it's a sweet deal. I got mine as a kit and would have to look up who but many vendors sell them.

And yes, some people bash it. Don't care. They don't pay my bills or eat at my dinner table...

JW

View attachment 1715639903
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If you figure out whose kit it is, please let me know. Looking at many of the kits they run somewhere around $450+ depending on what you get. The HB units themselves are not all that expensive; a Ram 3500 version is like $176 on Rockauto and the Astro Van version is $122 and I am capable of making any mounting plate I might need so I really don't think I need to spend ~$500+ on one.

I really like the concept and especially the packaging. On my 70 RR I would have to use a HB system or go manual because it has a tilt front end and there is no room for a vacuum booster. This is why I am looking for data at this point.
 
70chall440 said:
If you figure out whose kit it is, please let me know. Looking at many of the kits they run somewhere around $450+ depending on what you get. The HB units themselves are not all that expensive; a Ram 3500 version is like $176 on Rockauto and the Astro Van version is $122 and I am capable of making any mounting plate I might need so I really don't think I need to spend ~$500+ on one.

I really like the concept and especially the packaging. On my 70 RR I would have to use a HB system or go manual because it has a tilt front end and there is no room for a vacuum booster. This is why I am looking for data at this point.
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Looks like Wilwood makes a nice one. Looks like pretty much a bolt on unit.

New 1966-1970 Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth Charger Hydro-Boost Brake Booster
 
RustyRatRod said:
Looks like Wilwood makes a nice one. Looks like pretty much a bolt on unit.

New 1966-1970 Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth Charger Hydro-Boost Brake Booster
Click to expand...

This is a nice system but its $450 (just the HB unit, everything else is extra). You can buy a HB unit off Rock Auto for $122 - $200. I am trying to determine what is different between those listed/made for a car over something off RA. Obviously it would be the mounting system and the rod; I am fully capable of making or altering both of those items so I am really trying to determine what is the best course of action; which unit is the best to start with, etc.

I am leaning towards a Dodge diesel unit, one because its Mopar but more so because I want to use a Mopar MC and I know it will bolt up. What I am unsure of is the mounting plate (can I remove it or alter it) and the rod (can it be removed).
 
70chall440 said:
If you figure out whose kit it is, please let me know. Looking at many of the kits they run somewhere around $450+ depending on what you get. The HB units themselves are not all that expensive; a Ram 3500 version is like $176 on Rockauto and the Astro Van version is $122 and I am capable of making any mounting plate I might need so I really don't think I need to spend ~$500+ on one.

I really like the concept and especially the packaging. On my 70 RR I would have to use a HB system or go manual because it has a tilt front end and there is no room for a vacuum booster. This is why I am looking for data at this point.
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Seems to me that the MC with all the lines and adjustable P Valve was around 700.00. Alot of members on here run manual with no trouble and see no need for any assist so you may can start another thread and see where that lands you. As for putting a kit together I have no idea on that. I don't mess with used brake parts and have no interest in putting pieces together to make something stop. If I can remember the name I will post it but probably looking at any Streetrod parts supplier will get you there......

As for the performance, opinions vary but 3 people drove the car prior to me doing a partial dismantle and they were impressed by the brakes on the car. The other one I had would stop at 3500lb car trapping almost 127mph in the 1/4 with a short shutdown lickity split lol.... Both cars equipped with factory disk on the front and drums on the back....

JW
 
SLOPAR72 said:
Seems to me that the MC with all the lines and adjustable P Valve was around 700.00. Alot of members on here run manual with no trouble and see no need for any assist so you may can start another thread and see where that lands you. As for putting a kit together I have no idea on that. I don't mess with used brake parts and have no interest in putting pieces together to make something stop. If I can remember the name I will post it but probably looking at any Streetrod parts supplier will get you there......

As for the performance, opinions vary but 3 people drove the car prior to me doing a partial dismantle and they were impressed by the brakes on the car. The other one I had would stop at 3500lb car trapping almost 127mph in the 1/4 with a short shutdown lickity split lol.... Both cars equipped with factory disk on the front and drums on the back....

JW
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Thanks for the post. I have looked at a lot of the kits out there, some are better than others. However since none of those offering kits actually makes the HB unit, rather they are sourcing it from some place else and the fact that there are a variety of HB units available I feel that I can assemble a system for less money than a kit.

To this end, I have no intentions of putting "used" brake parts onto any of my cars, I am not sourcing parts from a junk yard, I will be buying parts from someplace like Rock Auto.

Braking seems to be a bit of a subjective issue; what one guy thinks is good another finds poor. I have a variety of vehicles to include a 70 Challenger RT with a 440 and factory PB (Disc/Drum), 73 Cuda with a 416 that 4 wheel manual disc, an 01 Viper, a 10 Challenger RT, etc. So I have a decent idea of how I want my cars to stop.

In this case, I want to explore a Hydro-boost system mainly because I can and since everyone raves about them I want to see what it is all about. That said, I am very confident I can built a HB system for quite a lot less than $700. Its not about saving money, its about doing something myself instead of paying someone else's markup.
 
70chall440 said:
Thanks for the post. I have looked at a lot of the kits out there, some are better than others. However since none of those offering kits actually makes the HB unit, rather they are sourcing it from some place else and the fact that there are a variety of HB units available I feel that I can assemble a system for less money than a kit.

To this end, I have no intentions of putting "used" brake parts onto any of my cars, I am not sourcing parts from a junk yard, I will be buying parts from someplace like Rock Auto.

Braking seems to be a bit of a subjective issue; what one guy thinks is good another finds poor. I have a variety of vehicles to include a 70 Challenger RT with a 440 and factory PB (Disc/Drum), 73 Cuda with a 416 that 4 wheel manual disc, an 01 Viper, a 10 Challenger RT, etc. So I have a decent idea of how I want my cars to stop.

In this case, I want to explore a Hydro-boost system mainly because I can and since everyone raves about them I want to see what it is all about. That said, I am very confident I can built a HB system for quite a lot less than $700. Its not about saving money, its about doing something myself instead of paying someone else's markup.
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I totally agree with you 70chall440, I've been looking into doing the same thing for one of my B bodies. The "kits" are marked up a bit for sure, but one difference I've noticed is that the kits claim the HB unit to be "brand new" Bosch units versus the Rock Auto units are rebuilt Bosch units. So that may account for SOME of the difference in price plus of course the kits are pretty much "bolt on" versus the "some fabrication required" if you build your own system. But, like you, I'm tempted to give it a try with the rebuilt HB unit.

One question that I haven't been able to fully comprehend is why/how does the HB unit create MORE line pressure with the same M/C installed? I've got plenty of "ASSIST" with my factory vacuum booster, just not enough line pressure for the front discs. I can only come up with the possible answer that the HB unit will easily operate a LARGER bore diameter M/C thereby increasing volume AND pressure to the front discs? Whereas now I have to use the smallest bore diameter M/C (15/16") to generate higher PSI to the front which of course decreases fluid volume at the same time.
 
69DodgeMan said:
I totally agree with you 70chall440, I've been looking into doing the same thing for one of my B bodies. The "kits" are marked up a bit for sure, but one difference I've noticed is that the kits claim the HB unit to be "brand new" Bosch units versus the Rock Auto units are rebuilt Bosch units. So that may account for SOME of the difference in price plus of course the kits are pretty much "bolt on" versus the "some fabrication required" if you build your own system. But, like you, I'm tempted to give it a try with the rebuilt HB unit.

One question that I haven't been able to fully comprehend is why/how does the HB unit create MORE line pressure with the same M/C installed? I've got plenty of "ASSIST" with my factory vacuum booster, just not enough line pressure for the front discs. I can only come up with the possible answer that the HB unit will easily operate a LARGER bore diameter M/C thereby increasing volume AND pressure to the front discs? Whereas now I have to use the smallest bore diameter M/C (15/16") to generate higher PSI to the front which of course decreases fluid volume at the same time.
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I agree that the kits are temping because they are already sorted and if you buy everything then it should all work together whereas sourcing various parts will require some fabrication. Each to his own on that note; for me I have a full shop to include a mill and lathe so the fabrication aspect is not a hinderance not to mention I like the challenge of it.

As to your question or quandary; I believe that the HB is more effective because its all fluid and the PS pump generates more pressure than the vacuum booster.
 
70chall440 said:
This is a nice system but its $450 (just the HB unit, everything else is extra). You can buy a HB unit off Rock Auto for $122 - $200. I am trying to determine what is different between those listed/made for a car over something off RA. Obviously it would be the mounting system and the rod; I am fully capable of making or altering both of those items so I am really trying to determine what is the best course of action; which unit is the best to start with, etc.

I am leaning towards a Dodge diesel unit, one because its Mopar but more so because I want to use a Mopar MC and I know it will bolt up. What I am unsure of is the mounting plate (can I remove it or alter it) and the rod (can it be removed).
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It was a post to give an example. You can always call Wilwood and see if they will offer the HB unit alone if you want a different master cylinder. I'm still unclear on exactly WHAT it is you're looking for. Individual components to build your own? Trying to keep price down? 450 for that entire unit is pretty reasonable given comparables available, so I am not understanding what you're after. Seems to me it's a totally bolt in unit. Was that not what you were looking for?
 
RustyRatRod said:
It was a post to give an example. You can always call Wilwood and see if they will offer the HB unit alone if you want a different master cylinder. I'm still unclear on exactly WHAT it is you're looking for. Individual components to build your own? Trying to keep price down? 450 for that entire unit is pretty reasonable given comparables available, so I am not understanding what you're after. Seems to me it's a totally bolt in unit. Was that not what you were looking for?
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What I am after is a less expensive system that I can get parts for later on down the road primarily. Keep in mind that $450 is just for the HB unit, the MC is another $125, then the lines, etc. and to be clear I am not hating on the after market systems but I just thinking there is a less expensive way to do it.

My main point is this; if I can source production components and build a HB system for less money than a kit, that is what I am after. The kits are based on production parts, there is no magic in them that cannot be duplicated, so I am interested in exploring this possibility. That said, I am not against buying one from someone like Power Brake Service (Speed Manufacturing) if its clearing a better option. I could source my onw MC, so that saves $100 or so because a Mopar 1 1/8 MC is like $25 on RA.
 
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