Is it BO and LO or is it B0 and L0….that is the question??

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ns1rm21

ns1rm21

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Ok, this topic has been going on for many years. I would like to see DOCUMENTED proof of what you believe it is. I would rather not get in some debate about it but I’m looking for proof of it being one way or another. I have heard all the story’s like “ my friend owned one and it was….” That does not help this topic. If nobody can come up with any proof then we can open it up for debate and what people THINK it is…..either O or 0.

Ok, Go!! (This should be fun!!)
9D0A8CEA-CA12-4E10-A9A3-442376D84A4E.jpeg
 
All you have to do is to look at a complete VIN and then look at the VIN listings in the fronts of the service manuals. LO are letters according to the VIN listings.
 
I'm gonna go "LO" as documented in the vin decoder ... "0" indicates the number of year, whereas "O" indicates the product designation as in "Super Stock".

1st digit: Car make:
B = Barracuda
J = Challenger
L = Dart
R = Belvedere / Satellite
V = Valiant / Duster
W = Coronet/1971-74 Charger
X = 1966-70 Charger
2nd digit: Series number:
O = Barracuda Super Stock (1968), Dart Super Stock
3rd and 4th digit: Body style
21 = 2-door sedan
23 = 2-door coupe
29 = 2-door Sports coupe
5th digit: Engine
J = 426 c.i.d./425hp 2x4-bbl V8 Hemi (1968-69)
R = 426 c.i.d./425hp 2x4-bbl V8 Hemi (1970-71)
6th digit: Model year:
8 = 1968
7th digit: Assembly plant:
A = Lynch Road, Detroit, MI
B = Dodge Main, Hamtramck, MI
C = Jefferson Avenue, Detroit, MI
D = Belvidere, IL
E = Los Angeles, CA
F = Newark, DE
G = St. Louis, MO
H = New Stanton, PA
P = Export
R = Windsor, Ont. Canada
8th through 13th digits: Sequential production number starting with 100001
 
BO or LO both letters ;The O here indicate either Barracuda Super Stock or Dart Super Stock
68-74vin.jpg
1968-74 models have the Vehicle Identification Number located on a stainless-steel plate riveted to the left side of the instrument panel, visible through the windshield.
1st digit: Car make:
*B = Barracuda
J = Challenger
*L = Dart
R = Belvedere / Satellite
V = Valiant / Duster
W = Coronet/1971-74 Charger
X = 1966-70 Charger
2nd digit: Series number:
L = Valiant (1968-74), Duster (1970-74), Dart (1968-74), Dart Swinger (1968-70), Dart Swinger Special (1971-74), Demon (1971-72), Dart Sport (1973-74), Belvedere (1968-70), Satellite coupe (1971-74), Coronet (1968-74), Charger coupe (1971-74)
M = Dart Swinger 340 (1969-70), Demon 340 (1971-72), Dart Sport 340 (1973), Dart Sport 360 (1974), Road Runner (1968-74), Road Runner SuperBird (1970), Road Runner GTX (1972-74), Coronet SuperBee (1968-70), Charger SuperBee (1971)
H = Valiant Signet (1968-69), Barracuda (1968-69), Barracuda 'Cuda (1969), Scamp (1971-74), Dart 270 (1968), Dart Custom (1969-74), Dart Swinger (1971-74), Satellite (1968- 70), Satellite Sebring (1971-74), Satellite Custom (1971-74),Coronet 440 (1968-70), Charger (1970), Charger coupe (1971-74), Coronet Custom (1971-74), Barracuda (1970-74),Challenger (1970-74), Challenger T/A (1970)
P = Valiant Brougham (1974), Dart GT (1968-69), Dart SE (1974), Sport Satellite (1968-70), Satellite Sebring Plus (1971-74), Satellite Brougham (1971), Regent, Coronet 500, Charger (1968-69), Charger 500 (1970-71), Charger SE (1971-74), Coronet Brougham (1971), Crestwood (1971-74), Barracuda Gran Coupe (1970-71)
S = Duster 340 (1970-73), Duster 360 (1974), Dart GTS (1968-69), Dart GSS (1968), Challenger R/T (1970), GTX (1968-71), Coronet R/T (1968-70), Charger R/T (1968-71), Charger 500 (early 1969), Barracuda 'Cuda (1970-74), Barracuda AAR 'Cuda (1970), Challenger R/T (1970-71), Challenger Rallye (1972)
X = Charger 500 (late 1969), and Charger Daytona (1969)
*O = Barracuda Super Stock (1968), Dart Super Stock (1968) K = Belvedere Police (1968-70), Satellite Police (1971-74), Coronet Police
 
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People are starting to bring up good points but it looks like people are showing reprinted documents. Does anybody have any paperwork from back in the day clearly stating the letter O or the number 0?
 
ns1rm21 said:
People are starting to bring up good points but it looks like people are showing reprinted documents. Does anybody have any paperwork from back in the day clearly stating the letter O or the number 0?
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I already told you. Look in the service manual. That is an original document
 
67Dart273 said:
I already told you. Look in the service manual. That is an original document
Click to expand...

Your correct but you did a “cut and paste”. You did not take a picture of an original document. I know what your talking about.
 
I own an original 68 Hemi Dart and have seen the VIN's on dozens of L0 and B0 cars. I was told by Tom Hoover at the Mopars at the Strip show a couple years before he died that they wanted to make sure the Super Stock cars had a unique VIN. I have never seen any Chrysler documentation on this issue though. The only docs I have from Chrysler talks about the sales codes but does not mention the actual VIN...

Hemi Dart document.jpg
 
Having said all that, I will play devil's advocate with myself. There was never an O anything on VIN's or fender tags, take a look at a 68 fender tag and there is no O on either number line, so it may very will be that they did not have an O available to them to stamp out the VIN tags! Here is an example of a 68 fender tag to show my point. So if there was no O available they would have only had the 0 to use...

View attachment 1715967892

68 mr norms fender tag.jpg
 
ns1rm21 said:
Your correct but you did a “cut and paste”. You did not take a picture of an original document. I know what your talking about.
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I did not cut and paste anything. I simply referred you to a manual. If you download them they are scans of original documents
 
HemiSSDart said:
Having said all that, I will play devil's advocate with myself. There was never an O anything on VIN's or fender tags, take a look at a 68 fender tag and there is no O on either number line, so it may very will be that they did not have an O available to them to stamp out the VIN tags! Here is an example of a 68 fender tag to show my point. So if there was no O available they would have only had the 0 to use...

View attachment 1715967892

View attachment 1715967895
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I agree with there not being a specific 'O' in the Fender tags, just as there is no 'I' in the tag codes.

Easily confused with a zero or a One.....so my guess is that they dropped the letter 'O' in favour of avoiding confusion.
 
kiwigtx said:
I agree with there not being a specific 'O' in the Fender tags, just as there is no 'I' in the tag codes.

Easily confused with a zero or a One.....so my guess is that they dropped the letter 'O' in favour of avoiding confusion.
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Also no “Z” stamped on vin or tag. There is an upper case “Z” on 68-down tags. Because it gets confused with a “2”.
 
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What’s also kinda funny is when you look at that this 1968 fender tag where it has A B C D E……it skips the letter O. I have never noticed that before.
 
The second space is always a letter. It doesn't really matter what font or stamp they used. The intent is it to be the letter "O". See replies 2, 3 and 4. Not really a debate.
 
Second VIN digit is always a letter.
 
I will say that "smart" project planners skip alpha-numeric characters that look alike or only use one of the two and are consistent as to which one.

For example Mopar doesn't use "I" as an engine size.

This also applies to RO and WO super stock 67 Belvederes and Coronets.
 
ns1rm21 said:
People are starting to bring up good points but it looks like people are showing reprinted documents. Does anybody have any paperwork from back in the day clearly stating the letter O or the number 0?
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Well quite frankly many of us didn't have the good fortune of knowing anyone originally associated with these cars, hence copied documents. Anything on the internet or anywhere else is going to be "copied". A disadvantage for sure. Some on here have an original document and even maybe an original car so if they can't produce anything written then what?
 
OK, I found an original document in my files, and it does say "O" for the VIN. It really does not matter what the second digit or letter is as stated above, it is obviously a "0" as it matches the font for a ZERO. If indeed you go with the narrative that the second space in the VIN is always a letter, then so be it, but don't forget ever that we are talking about Chrysler and all bets are off. If you stamp out a new VIN good luck using an "O"...

Hemi Dart sign off sheet.jpg
 
HemiSSDart said:
OK, I found an original document in my files, and it does say "O" for the VIN. It really does not matter what the second digit or letter is as stated above, it is obviously a "0" as it matches the font for a ZERO. If indeed you go with the narrative that the second space in the VIN is always a letter, then so be it, but don't forget ever that we are talking about Chrysler and all bets are off. If you stamp out a new VIN good luck using an "O"...

View attachment 1715967963
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Just for ***** and giggles all of the other O's in the written portion of the memo appear to look the same as the assumed zero in the vin. Of course my attempt at enlarging the memo for comparison is limited.
 
Ok, so I did some thinking about this. I’m not lucky to have owned any of the SS cars so I did some checking in my 68 service manual.

In the service manual it is clearly the letter O under the 2nd digit of the VIN numbers and the engine sizes are zeros, 170, 340, 440.

No letter O is used anywhere on the VIN plate for car make (1st letter) engine size (5th letter) or assembly plant (7th letter) so my thought is this, when building the SS cars why invest in another stamp for the letter O when you could just swap in the number 0 and let it go at that.

OK, rebuttals for those far more knowledge in the SS cars please. Also, anybody have a shot of the 1967 RO and WO Coronet and Belvedere VIN plate? Same font style letter O?

Cliff Ramsdell
image.jpg
image.jpg
 
Cliff Ramsdell said:
Ok, so I did some thinking about this. I’m not lucky to have owned any of the SS cars so I did some checking in my 68 service manual.

In the service manual it is clearly the letter O under the 2nd digit of the VIN numbers and the engine sizes are zeros, 170, 340, 440.

No letter O is used anywhere on the VIN plate for car make (1st letter) engine size (5th letter) or assembly plant (7th letter) so my thought is this, when building the SS cars why invest in another stamp for the letter O when you could just swap in the number 0 and let it go at that.

OK, rebuttals for those far more knowledge in the SS cars please. Also, anybody have a shot of the 1967 RO and WO Coronet and Belvedere VIN plate? Same font style letter O?

Cliff Ramsdell
View attachment 1715968097 View attachment 1715968098
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I was hoping somebody other than me would see this!! Nice job!
 
If you read my reply I came to that conclusion also. Still it is a ZERO on the VIN plate...cannot refute that...
 
HemiSSDart said:
If you read my reply I came to that conclusion also. Still it is a ZERO on the VIN plate...cannot refute that...
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I agree, it’s stamped “zero” on the dash VIN plate. I was offering up ideas as to why the 0 on the plate and the letter O in printed documents like the service manual.

Anyone have a picture of the fender tag we can check out and chew on for a few?

Cliff Ramsdell
 
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