72_dart
Well-Known Member
I just received the k-member reinforcement kit from Firm Feel. I plan on welding up my k-member today or tomorrow. Does anyone have any tip or suggestions, or is there anything that I should know before I start welding?
k-member reinforcement
- Thread starter 72_dart
- Start date
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Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
Basically, the cleaner the parts are, the better the weld will be.
That goes double for the fit.
If your k-member is out, it would be a lot easier.
Take some time and re weld some of the crappy factory welds as well, some were just barely good enough to pass. Pay special attention to the holes where the torsion bars go in as well as the steering box mounts.
Look at my build thread, i did a lot of extra welding on my k-member while it was out, and have lots of pictures.
That goes double for the fit.
If your k-member is out, it would be a lot easier.
Take some time and re weld some of the crappy factory welds as well, some were just barely good enough to pass. Pay special attention to the holes where the torsion bars go in as well as the steering box mounts.
Look at my build thread, i did a lot of extra welding on my k-member while it was out, and have lots of pictures.
yellowduster408
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I welded up my k frame and made the mistake of not degreasing it real real real real good. The oil from over the years permeates the steel and gets in all the cracks and crevices. I should have sent it to a machine shop to hot tank it. I ended up burning all the oil and grease off with a torch OUTSIDE with a respirator. Hot tank it!
pishta
I know I'm right....
Corrosion control! Clean it, test fit pieces, weld in 1-2 inch fillets and then move to another area, keeps heat down.
All great advice so far! :thumbup: I think the biggest one is get that sucker CLEAN. I used a degreaser on mine, pressure washed it, and still had some oil and grease come out of it. Not enough to really screw things up, but hot tanking it would be the way to go. Doing the seam welding around the edges really shows how much oil can get trapped in these things.
Dartnut is right on too about some of the factory welds. I went over pretty much all of mine on both of the K's I've done now. I used an FFI kit on the first one that I did for my EL5 Dart. Most of the kit parts fit ok, but you definitely need to do some fitting and grinding to get things right. It was enough that when I did the K for my Duster I just made the pieces myself.
Make sure you check the fit on the steering box before you finish welding in the steering box reinforcements. I didn't do this on the K I did for my Duster, and ended up having some interference issues when I reinstalled the power steering box :banghead:. The Flaming River manual box that's in there now has more clearance, but I'd still do a test fit before you finish that part of the welding. It's easy to get the brace a little too high, and it interfered with the "nose" of the steering box and kept it from sitting down all the way. Fortunately it wasn't much and I was able to "adjust" it a little with a BFH and a little clean up grinding on the casting seam on the steering box, but it would have been a lot easier if I'd done it right the first time.
Dartnut is right on too about some of the factory welds. I went over pretty much all of mine on both of the K's I've done now. I used an FFI kit on the first one that I did for my EL5 Dart. Most of the kit parts fit ok, but you definitely need to do some fitting and grinding to get things right. It was enough that when I did the K for my Duster I just made the pieces myself.
Make sure you check the fit on the steering box before you finish welding in the steering box reinforcements. I didn't do this on the K I did for my Duster, and ended up having some interference issues when I reinstalled the power steering box :banghead:. The Flaming River manual box that's in there now has more clearance, but I'd still do a test fit before you finish that part of the welding. It's easy to get the brace a little too high, and it interfered with the "nose" of the steering box and kept it from sitting down all the way. Fortunately it wasn't much and I was able to "adjust" it a little with a BFH and a little clean up grinding on the casting seam on the steering box, but it would have been a lot easier if I'd done it right the first time.
I had my k hot tanked then I sandblasted it, 0 issues with grease when welding, It's the way to go. Reinforced the steering box area and welded all the seams solid as said above then had it powder coated.
Don't use carb/brake cleaner to clean.
72_dart
Well-Known Member
I bought the k member last year. When I first got it home I degreased it and it's just been sitting outside I went out to take off the lca's and strut rods and noticed that there is still quite a bit of oil or grease around where the power steering gear goes. Maybe I'll just try to degrease it one more time. I planned on using a wire wheel on my angle grinder to clean up the surface rust. I guess I'll shoot for tomorrow. If I can't get it clean enough then I'll get it hot tanked and blasted. One question though... Where do the cut washers go?
Realistically you won't get it clean enough. All that oil is just sitting between the seams, and as soon as you start welding it will thin and run right out. I thought I did a great job with my pressure washer, and I still had issues. The rust is a piece of cake by comparison.
The cut washers reinforce the LCA pivot holes, they go on the side the LCA comes in on, not on the nut side.
72_dart
Well-Known Member
Thanks 72bluNblu, did you flatten out the the factory tabs up where the front strut rod bushings go?
No, although you could. I actually just ran a bead down the backside of that flange to weld it to the K. The '73 up K's actually have flat reinforcements there instead of the ones with the tabs.
Also, I didn't add the reinforcement washers to the fronts of the strut rod mounts. I use adjustable strut rods, and they all use a large metal spacer instead of the typical bushing and washer set up. With the added diameter and thickness of the metal spacer, the extra reinforcing is just extra. If you're going to use a stock strut rod and bushing set up, I'd reinforce it though. But keep in mind that extra thickness may effect the length of the strut rod.
72_dart
Well-Known Member
Well last night I degreased it 1 more time. I went around all the seams with a torch I found some significant oil reserves near the front of the k member. Today I will wire wheel it and make an attempt at welding it up. I figure I'll start in the areas that I found the most oil and see how it goes. If it doesn't go so good, I'll plan on getting it hot tanked. Thanks to all for the good input.
jtolbert
Well-Known Member
So if you do short sections when welding the seams up, move around and such, you shouldn't need a jig to keep the k-member square or anything, right? I've always wondered if things will deform when doing the seam welding. I have the Firm Feel plates ready for my k-member and have been holding off.
jbc426
Well-Known Member
This is timely information for me with lots of good advice, hot tanking, sand blasting, double checking steering box before welding the supports in there.
Mine was originally a slant 6 k-member. It now has the Schumacher , mounts and a 5.9 Magnum.
Is there any way any way to check it for straightness prior to welding? Not sure how you could ever bend it back one way or the other anyway.
Mine was originally a slant 6 k-member. It now has the Schumacher , mounts and a 5.9 Magnum.
Is there any way any way to check it for straightness prior to welding? Not sure how you could ever bend it back one way or the other anyway.
72_dart
Well-Known Member
Ok so the k-member is going to get hot tanked then blasted. I got what I thought was real clean and the welding started ok but there are places that I just couldn't get with a wire wheel and I can feel more oil and Crap inside. It wasn't a total waste at least I got the stiffing plates and sway bar tabs welded on my lca's. Does anyone have pictures of where the pieces get welded on the k-member? One thing that I did do was try to fit them. Either the pieces fit real bad or I'm just not putting them in the right spots. I'm talking about the 3 piece that go around the ps box.
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
To check for square, measure between opposite corners and they should be the same for square. If they are very far off, the k-member is tweaked.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
can you send me pix of what these reinforcement pieces look like, i copied the pieces of the firm feel K frame setup that i could see from their pix on the 73 up K frame , but am not sure how to proceed with the steering box reinforcements. i plan on using 1/8" plate, which is what i also used for the center reinforcing / skid plate under the K frame.
anybody got any pix to show of the reinforcements and where they are installed for the steering box. the rest of the reinforcements i figured out. BTW i cleaned and scraped most of the crap off my K frame with easy off oven cleaner, wire brushes, paint scrapers, and a garden hose, then i used an extended reach air blower to blow all the stuck chunks out of the inside. then i hot tanked my K frame, and sand blasted it.
i set my car level in the garage. i used 4 bubble levels one on each rocker panel, one on the radiator support flange, and one across the rear shock tower pan. then i shimmed and leveled the chassis till all 4 levels were level. i bolted the K back into the car. then i welded it up while it was in the car. no worries about warping, the car frame is the jig. just make sure its level so the frame is square before welding.
i used this technique to get the body level when i put in my subframe connectors as well.
Matt
I also went through all that, got it back from the powdercoaterr, and thought damn I would like to have a tow hook!! Just some food for thought
72_dart
Well-Known Member
These are the pieces for the 73 and up k member. Right now I don't have my k it's getting cleaned up
CudaChris67
Well-Known Member
This.
And welding (heating) may make it out of square. Used a jig when I did mine to make sure it stayed square.
Pics on page 2 of my build thread
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=186036
-Chris
The plates from Firm Feel need some trimming, they aren't a perfect fit by any means.They also need some shaping with a BFH to curve them to fit better. As far as warping the K member by welding on the reinforcements, you'd really have to work at it. I mean, you'd have to heat the ever loving crap out of the thing in order to warp it. A jig isn't necessary, I've fully seam welded and reinforced two of them now without any issues at all. Same rules apply as for welding on anything, move around and let the other sections cool in between sessions. When I did the seam welding I would do a 4-5" section and then move to the opposite side and do the same thing. Obviously it would be a good idea to make sure the K is straight before you start reinforcing it. I also went over all of the factory welds, more than a couple of them were cracked, including the steering box mount. The one on my spool mount K was cracked to the point that the steering box moved when you turned the wheel.
As far as the plates, the big triangle goes on the bottom of the steering box mount and gets welded to the steering box mount, the engine mount plate and the back of the K frame. It fits better if you bend it to fit the lower curve of the steering box mount. The half moon little strip I didn't even use, it goes in the narrow gap under the steering box mount, in the curve that starts right at the end of the triangular reinforcement piece. I was able to weld the steering box mount directly to the K there with two passes on my MIG, so I didn't use the little strip. The half triangle, half round piece goes on the front of the steering box mount, but it has to be folded at a 90* angle. Also, when you weld that one in check the steering box clearance. If it sticks up to high or out to far forward it will hit the box. I just made templates for mine, maybe these pictures will help a little. I should have taken pictures when I finished welding, now that its installed in the car you pretty much can't see anything.
As far as the plates, the big triangle goes on the bottom of the steering box mount and gets welded to the steering box mount, the engine mount plate and the back of the K frame. It fits better if you bend it to fit the lower curve of the steering box mount. The half moon little strip I didn't even use, it goes in the narrow gap under the steering box mount, in the curve that starts right at the end of the triangular reinforcement piece. I was able to weld the steering box mount directly to the K there with two passes on my MIG, so I didn't use the little strip. The half triangle, half round piece goes on the front of the steering box mount, but it has to be folded at a 90* angle. Also, when you weld that one in check the steering box clearance. If it sticks up to high or out to far forward it will hit the box. I just made templates for mine, maybe these pictures will help a little. I should have taken pictures when I finished welding, now that its installed in the car you pretty much can't see anything.
lilcuda
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Not according to Dick Ross and also my experience. When I bought my reinforcement kit, I asked him about warping from welding in the pieces. He said no way. The k members are very sturdy and he hasn't seen any issues with them warping from heat. My friend mig-welded my reinforcement kit with no jig and I had no problems putting it back in the car, even with the engine still in the car.
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
I have welded on many k-members, but mostly in the motor mount areas. Never warped one. I have straightened a tweaked one, though...
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
As far as the plates, the big triangle goes on the bottom of the steering box mount and gets welded to the steering box mount, the engine mount plate and the back of the K frame. It fits better if you bend it to fit the lower curve of the steering box mount. The half moon little strip I didn't even use, it goes in the narrow gap under the steering box mount, in the curve that starts right at the end of the triangular reinforcement piece. I was able to weld the steering box mount directly to the K there with two passes on my MIG, so I didn't use the little strip. The half triangle, half round piece goes on the front of the steering box mount, but it has to be folded at a 90* angle. Also, when you weld that one in check the steering box clearance. If it sticks up to high or out to far forward it will hit the box. I just made templates for mine, maybe these pictures will help a little. I should have taken pictures when I finished welding, now that its installed in the car you pretty much can't see anything.[/QUOTE]
Hey 72bluNblu
Thanks for showing the pix of the templates. After i looked at yours online, i went out to my shop, and looked at thr cardboard templates i made for my steering box mount months ago. They are very similar to youRs which means i was on the right track. I have 1/8" plate which was what i was going to make mine out of.
I will be using the dillinger strut rods with heim ends, but have to ask, how thick are the washer reinforcements for the LCA holes?
Im sure lots of people will buy the kits from firm feel, but i like making stuff so id rather fab the pieces myself.
Thanks for the pix.
Matt
Hey 72bluNblu
Thanks for showing the pix of the templates. After i looked at yours online, i went out to my shop, and looked at thr cardboard templates i made for my steering box mount months ago. They are very similar to youRs which means i was on the right track. I have 1/8" plate which was what i was going to make mine out of.
I will be using the dillinger strut rods with heim ends, but have to ask, how thick are the washer reinforcements for the LCA holes?
Im sure lots of people will buy the kits from firm feel, but i like making stuff so id rather fab the pieces myself.
Thanks for the pix.
Matt
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