Loose ball joint normal?

[Aaron65]

I just got done replacing a noisy front wheel bearing in the Dart, and I noticed that the lower ball joint had quite a bit of back and forth play.

I resigned myself to replacing it, but I checked out the shop manual, and it said looseness is not a reason to replace a ball joint if it has less than .050 inches of axial play. Mine has just a little noticeable up and down play.

So, is ball joint looseness acceptable on A-Bodies? I'm certainly not used to that...I assume the weight of the car keeps everything in check...

 

[67Dart273]

Axial IS up and down. "back and forth" (horizontal) would be radial

 

[Aaron65]

Right...I might have been unclear.

I'm just verifying with others that it's OK to have radial play as long as there's little axial play. It just seems like an odd way of doing things compared to what I'm used to, but this is my first Mopar.

 

[oldkimmer]

.............some up and down play is acceptable, but any sideways play is not replace it...........kim.......

 

[Aaron65]

I've got my new ball joints and I'm going to replace them this week...

Is there a preferred tool for separating the lower ball joint stud? The manual shows a type of threaded puller; I've always used a pickle fork, but this ball joint looks a little different from what I'm used to.

 

[67Dart273]

On anything I don't care about the rubber, a pickle fork works well. "Some of this stuff" has been rusted in place for years, and it takes "a bunch" to bush it loose.

I have a pretty big Proto "dead blow" ball pein I've had now for years. It GREATLY increases the "blow power" especially in my now somewhat reduced state.

 

[Aaron65]

Sounds good...I'll take the pickle fork to it. Thanks!

 

[2 Darts]

Beware of the LCA (lower control arm) when beating on the LBJ. Strongly recommend putting a stand under the LCA to keep the torsion bar (TB) from massively unloading on you. Unless of course, you don't have the TBs installed.

 

[Aaron65]

I absolutely will put something under the LCA. I actually usually just keep the nut threaded on the stud a thread or two to catch everything when it comes loose.

 

[BillGrissom]

Getting at the lower ball joint is always difficult. A pickle fork works well, but insure the tips aren't bottoming out on the spindle. I recall always having to add a washer spacer (cut slot in one side) for my A's and C. Same deal in my 1985 M-B recently. I had to buy a new pickle fork with better spaced forks and cut the tips down so they didn't bottom out. I use polyurethane boots (Energy Suspension) instead of the rubber ones that come on the ball joints. The factory manual shows how one can fab a "pusher bolt" to put between the ball joints to force down on the lower ball joint stud. I don't know if such was sold or just a concept. Many say the "2 hammer method" works well, but not for me. I understand suspension shops did it routinely back in the day.

 

[Aaron65]

I got the driver's side one replaced last night. The pickle fork worked, but it took a LOT of hammering. The pickle fork fit fine if I turned the brake out of the way, which was easy because it was only attached to the upper ball joint at that point.

I removed the tie rod first, then the bolts to the backing plate, and the LCA attachment last. Phew...one side to go! Actually, it only took about an hour, and that's with 50 years of dirt road and grease on everything.

 

[RedFish]

The lower arm is mounted in rubber by the lower arm bushing at pivot pin and rubber again at the strut rod end. So a lot of the impact from hammer blow is dissipated.
A stiffener on the opposing side helps whether its a timber, porta-power, other.

 

[Aaron65]

Good tip, Redfish...I'll try that on the passenger side.

 

[Aaron65]

I got everything in, and I realigned the front end (dialing in as much positive caster as the front end allowed), and the steering is a bit tight; it won't return to center on its own after a turn.

I've used all Moog parts, and I also installed a new idler arm. It's gotten a little better as I've driven it around, but it's still somewhat tight. To be honest, it drove better when it was all worn out! Do these Moogs just take a little time to loosen up? I followed the assembly instructions (which were a bit different from the shop manual).

 

[Sedanman]

Try greasing the new parts? The alignment may need to be looked at since the worn parts are changed.

 

[Aaron65]

I actually have a toe gauge and a camber gauge. I reset the toe and set the camber to roughly zero. I usually just set the suspension up for as much positive caster as I can physically set it for and call it good. I greased the ball joints and idler arm up really well. The steering starts to return, but stops once it gets about a half turn from on center. One of the new parts must be a bit tight.

I do need to add that I initially torqued the spindle to ball joint nuts to 100 ft. lbs. (shop manual specs), when Moog's instructions called for 70-80. I loosened them back up and retorqued them, but I don't think that would make much of a difference, because I ended up torquing one tighter to get the cotter pin to line up anyway (per the instructions).

 

[pishta]

HF sells a slick "clothespin" style BJ seperator, uses a jackscrew to press threaded end out bottom. Works great, much more "civilized" than a pickle fork and a 3 lb sledge! And safer for the rest of the suspension. couple of low torque turns and BAM, off it comes. The rotation is in the gusher bearing, the castle nut has no effect. put it up on jackstands and watch full travel. There is a certain amount of up and down movement on the center link, maybe the new stuff altered the geometry down there and its hanging on something.

 

[Aaron65]

Just updating this...

I finally got sick of the sticky steering that wouldn't return to center, so I bought a pair of O'Reilly brand lower ball joints. As soon as I started pulling everything apart, I could tell that the Moog passenger ball joint was binding up. I replaced both just because I had them (and the Moog driver's side joint was sticky, but not binding). With the new joints, it drives like a normal old car again. It's sad, but a brand new Moog part was a failure. Expensive too, and too old to return.

I did write them a complaint, just so they know there's some questionable ball joints out there. Just letting everybody know so they can be careful when buying these things. It could have been a fluke, but it seems like I'm running into this kind of thing an awful lot lately...

Oh yeah, I did buy one of those clothespin ball joint poppers from HF...that thing is amazing! It's one of the coolest tools in the world, puts the pickle fork to shame!