Modifying a 360 water pump

[33Crazy]

This is going to sound crazy but I am at an end of solutions.
I am putting a 360 magnum in a 1933 Plymouth 4dr. I want to run serpentine belts and a manual fuel pump. I do not want to have to buy a March pulley set or spend big bucks to maker this happen. In Dodges infinite wisdom they only made a WP for an EFI with a serpentine belt "or" carb with a V belt. Neither is compatible with the other. I am running a manual fuel pump and Edlebrock carb because I do not want an electric fuel pump nor EFI, just to old to fart with electrocics.

I don't have room for the long snot wp and the engine cannot be moved back. So, my plan is the cut off the serpentine pumps inlet and repoint it so it clears the fuel pump flange. But that puts it real close to the radiator.

Good/Bad idea...any other ideas?

Thanks for reading.

 

[NC Engine Builder]

The magnum pump being serpentine driven, is reverse rotation, and the timing cover passages are designed different as well. If it were me, I would place the engine where I had room for the conventional pump and call it a day. JMHO

 

[diymirage]

any chances of using a LA waterpump and installing a magnum serpentine pulley on it?


and on a side note, I don't think those are the correct bolts for that fuel pump

 

[justinp61]

No big deal, cut it off and figure you angle, weld it back on and continue on.

 

[mderoy340]

The magnum pump being serpentine driven, is reverse rotation, and the timing cover passages are designed different as well. If it were me, I would place the engine where I had room for the conventional pump and call it a day. JMHO

X2
Plus pulley alignment with an LA timing cover and Magnum pump is off.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I read your post
You're in trouble.
I've never replaced a bearing in the LA pump, but If you look real close at that long nose, I have to wonder if it couldn't be shortened. Seems to me that might be doable. Just don't run it backwards. That might require some a creative idler arangement, cuz it would be on the wrong belt run.
Yeah, you're in trouble all right.

So inquiring minds want to know; what makes the engine immovable?

 

[33Crazy]

Yea, DiyMirage, good catch...just mocking up & easier to remove

 

[diymirage]

I read your post
You're in trouble.
I've never replaced a bearing in the LA pump, but If you look real close at that long nose, I have to wonder if it couldn't be shortened. Seems to me that might be doable. Just don't run it backwards. That might require some a creative idler arangement, cuz it would be on the wrong belt run.
Yeah, you're in trouble all right.

So inquiring minds want to know; what makes the engine immovable?

nah, it is simple
seems to me, there are two ways to make this turn the right way
the easiest way (providing the intake and outlet are the same sizes) would be to pull the impeller of, spin it around and re install it

second option would be an idler wheel
(pay no attention to my great drawing skills)

[ame="http://s96.photobucket.com/user/diymirage/media/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.png.html"]idler_zpsprh4fm8y.png Photo by diymirage | Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/diymirage/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.p@@AMEPARAM@@96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/diymirage/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.p[/ame]

[ame="http://s96.photobucket.com/user/diymirage/media/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.png.html"]idler_zpsprh4fm8y.png Photo by diymirage | Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/diymirage/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.p@@AMEPARAM@@96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/diymirage/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.p[/ame]

[ame="http://s96.photobucket.com/user/diymirage/media/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.png.html"]idler_zpsprh4fm8y.png Photo by diymirage | Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/diymirage/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.p@@AMEPARAM@@96.photobucket.com/albums/l198/diymirage/idler_zpsprh4fm8y.p[/ame]

pretty self explanatory , no?

Yea, DiyMirage, good catch...just mocking up & easier to remove

I kinda figured that, I posted that for comic relief

 

[Rob_Mopar]

Take a look at a water pump for a '91 318 Dakota. The '91 had a serpentine belt accessory drive setup that was a one year only design, different from the Magnum setup in '92. As far as I know that setup was only used on Dakotas in '91.

 

[Treblig]

I know on Chevys (sorry about using foul language) there are a few years that had the reverse rotation water pump even though the serpentine system stayed basically the same. They simply changed the way they routed the belt, it's really easy to find your own belt routing. The biggest problem (which isn't that big a deal) is getting the correct length belt.

Treblig

 

[Inertia]

nah, it is simple
seems to me, there are two ways to make this turn the right way
the easiest way (providing the intake and outlet are the same sizes) would be to pull the impeller of, spin it around and re install it.

Looking at pix, turning the impeller prob wouldn't work, but Treblig's on the right track, see if a reverse rotation marine pump is avail. It'll be costly but may have the best result.

I've had experience with the wrong direction pump on a marine engine, everything seems fine till about 2000 rpm-ish. Owner put a standard auto pump on a reverse engine, cuz the car pump was <$30, and the correct marine pump was $130. Same auto casting, distributed by Mercruiser, with the impellor vanes straight, 90* to the shaft, and sold it for both direction rotation, they just plugged off the heater hose port with a frost plug.

 

[diymirage]

I don't know why I cant post any pictures, but think about this
if you run the belt over the crank pulley, and the water pump pulley, they both turn in the same direction

now, if you place an idler pulley above and slightly to the right of the water pump pulley, you can run one side of the belt of the water pump pulley and now it runs the opposite way

(I had made a great drawing, colours and all, but it didn't link for some reason)

 

[Treblig]

Here are some examples that show how you can route the belt two completely different ways and still get CCW pump rotation. All you have to do is change the routing to get CW rotation.
PS - these are not Mopar systems, just examples.
Treblig

 

[RustyRatRod]

Not running the serpentine setup because you don't want to run an electric pump is almost a cop out.

Wiring up and plumbing an electric pump is probably one of the simplest things you can ever do. It's also very beneficial for today's crappy gas.

 

[jos51700]

I'm with RRR. Just run the electric fuel pump and the serp belt setup and get on with your life.

 

[340dartley]

Have you already changed the cam to an LA style cam? I do not believe the magnum cam has the shoulder to support the fuel pump eccentric. I could be wrong. If you already did this and you must run a serpentine belt, you would be money ahead to just buy aftermarket pullys. With stock style non magnum water pump you will need to be aware of correct rotation.

 

[33Crazy]

Rob Mopar...I wish I could see the pump you refer to but the eBay site shows nothing. All the pumps I have looked at come straight across where the manual fuel pump bolts. Did the 1991 have a manual pump? with the serpentine? Did the pump have a long snout? I need the short snout of the serpentine pump.

To all others...I am hot having a issue with the rotation and I am aware of the rotation issue. I still need to mount the a/c compressor and will not have a PS unit. I cannot move the engine without doing firewall mods...NOT going there!

I agree that I may have to pull the motor and put a timing cover for a serpentine cover but I am worried that my Comp cam (has the longer snout for fuel pump) will hit the timing cover???

 

[Rob_Mopar]

'91 was throttle body EFI. I don't have any pics of a '91 setup, but looking at the TBI 318 in my Shelby Dak with V-belts, there is a good bit of room around where a mechanical fuel pump would be.

Try this link: Cardone 55-33134

 

[33Crazy]

Rob Mopar...That pic looks like most of the EFI pumps I've tried. The inlet needs to go down at almost a 45 angle. I am just frustrated and don't want to pull the timing cover and find the cam won't clear and besides it's painted so nice.

Does anyone know if the long snout cam will fit with the EFI timing cover?