Moog Offset K7103 installation question -'65 Barracuda

[Bob Jasinski]

I've read quite a bit here and in Tom Condran's book about installing Moog K7103 offset upper control arm bushings to increase caster. My car has been apart for over 10 years, and back then I installed the K7103 bushings in both upper arms, and set them aside. Just to recap; the front upper control arm bushings should be installed with the offset hole away from the ball joint (arrow on bushing points to ball joint) and the rears with the offset towards the ball joint (arrow on bushing points away from ball joint). On inspecting what I did back then, I have them in the correct general orientation, but the arrows are not dead straight with the "plane" of the arm itself (as stated in the Condran book), and are off several degrees. I do remember I had a hard time getting it right and actually removed one and repressed it in. I'm thinking of removing another one and repress it in hoping for better accuracy .

Here's my questions: 1) What exactly do you align the arrow to (or away) from, (the ball joint is not specific enough) to get these right the first time, say if you used a straightedge somehow? 2) How critical is the arrow angle both left to right arm and/or towards the "plane" of the arm? 3) Nothing holds the outer bearing shell to the UCA other than pressed in friction, and I am concerned about the arm holes and/or bushing shell wearing out by removing and reinstalling these bushings more than once, which may come loose in service if not tight enough. Is this a valid concern? I'm thinking that being a few degrees off may end up being a problem when all assembled and on the alignment rack. Thanks in advance for feedback. Bob

 

[RustyRatRod]

Real simple. Install the front bushing so it makes the front side of the arm longer. Install the rear bushing so it makes the rear side of the arm shorter. I get the center line of the bushing hole and ball joint on the same plane when I decide "where" to install the bushings.

Now for my disclaimer.

That's how "I" do it. Someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong and I really don't give a ****.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Shot in the dark here, as long as you are close you should be good. The hole is eccentric/offset in the bushing. Its like a few degrees before/after top dead on a piston. It will be an improvement over what was in there from factory.

 

[72bluNblu]

Real simple. Install the front bushing so it makes the front side of the arm longer. Install the rear bushing so it makes the rear side of the arm shorter. I get the center line of the bushing hole and ball joint on the same plane when I decide "where" to install the bushings.

Now for my disclaimer.

That's how "I" do it. Someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong and I really don't give a ****.

That’s exactly how to install them for maximum caster.

You can explain it differently, but ultimately I’ve found that it’s really easy to misunderstand the more technical ways to explain it.

Thinking about it in terms of making the front arm longer and the rear arm shorter is by far the most straightforward way to think about it.

 

[mvh]

If the arrows are not perfectly in the horizontal plane, it will effect the angle of the arc of the upper arm as it swings up and down, but the discrepancy shouldn't be very much unless you really got them in crooked. "Eyeball" horizontal should be good enough. I wouldn't worry about re-pressing them — after the bolts are tightened down they aren't going anywhere.

 

[azaustin]

Could someone list the Layson’s part number for that book on performance mopar suspension by Condran? I left this page and the reply that had it was gone.

 

[grimreaper]

As MVH said i wouldn't worry about the angle if they are generally oriented properly. The minute amount of offset gained by turning them would not be worth the effort. When you align it just get the maximum caster and then set the camber. You will probably use all of the caster you can get and call it good anyway.

 

[72bluNblu]

Could someone list the Layson’s part number for that book on performance mopar suspension by Condran? I left this page and the reply that had it was gone.

AP-ACME is the part # at Laysons

Not to kill the man's book sales, but I think the book is a little outdated now. I can totally see how it was a gold mine when there was little to no aftermarket support for these cars, and you could still find a lot of parts in the junk yards. Now there are plenty of aftermarket options that aren't addressed at all in the book like 1"+ torsion bars, big brake kits, custom valved shocks etc. And finding factory parts at a junk yard at all, let alone ones in good enough condition to use on a street going car, is exceedingly difficult.

 

[azaustin]

Thanks!

 

[Bob Jasinski]

Thanks all, for the responses. Here is what I came up with to align the bushings before pressing in. I'm laying both arms up, like when in the car, on a flat surface. My goal is to align the bushings so the arrows are level and point directly away from each other (fronts) or directly at each other (rears). This is the most accurate way of orienting the bushings properly and balanced with each other that I have come up with. You will note that the arrows are not all yet aligned, as I am in process of correcting what I did 12 years ago, one is pressed out now. Notice the photo from above with the arms turned over and the sleeve that has been pressed out along with the bushing. This is a bit of a mystery that I would like input on. The parts book lists 2 (not 4) of these sleeves for Dart and Valiant. The service manual says the sleeves are for Belvedere and Satellite Police and Taxi, no mention of A bodies. I have a second set of upper control arms (from a '65 Barracuda, non FS) given to me years ago and they do not have any sleeves. So, were these sleeves only used on the Formula S, (my car) and maybe Dart GT? Why would they only be used on the rears and not fronts of the UCAs?

 

[Bob Jasinski]

Here's what I came up with after pressing out 3 of the bushings and re-pressing them in again with the two sleeves. I tried to align them perfectly using the method described above, which really helped. They did drift a little as they went in, but are much better than when I just eyeballed them. I'm leaving them where they are because I think they would be the same if I tried to do it over again with the same bushings. Based on the input here, I should be fine, even though they are not perfectly aligned. If anyone thinks they should be done over (I would use new bushings if I did) let me know. Have a look, (hope you can see the arrows) but I think I'm splitting hairs at this point.

 

[65ChargerDart]

The new bushings provided by Moog are offshore junk and don't even have arrows. There is enough adjustment in the upper control arm eccentrics for the alignment specialist to get the alignment where it needs to be. Go with what you have.

 

[72bluNblu]

Here's what I came up with after pressing out 3 of the bushings and re-pressing them in again with the two sleeves. I tried to align them perfectly using the method described above, which really helped. They did drift a little as they went in, but are much better than when I just eyeballed them. I'm leaving them where they are because I think they would be the same if I tried to do it over again with the same bushings. Based on the input here, I should be fine, even though they are not perfectly aligned. If anyone thinks they should be done over (I would use new bushings if I did) let me know. Have a look, (hope you can see the arrows) but I think I'm splitting hairs at this point.


View attachment 1715549423 View attachment 1715549424

Those look fine. Honestly, you probably would have been absolutely fine leaving them the way they were.

 

[Bob Jasinski]

It wasn't too hard to pull and reposition. I'll sleep better knowing I'll get the most caster I can. Pressed in the washers, bead blasted and painted them, ready to be installed.