Mopar ( Tube Kit ) info requested !

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NCmtnDWELLER

NCmtnDWELLER

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Is tube kit required or desired for
NON ROLLER SET UPS ?
Plan on running a solid flat tappet with over 272 Duration and approaching 600 lift .
I guess I will be installing the melling HV pump but if this modification is needed I may have to farm out the install thanks Chris .
 
Good question. Is it needed for a solid cam?
IDK. I’ll be watching this thread. I have a NF lobe Ultradyn cam @ 272/.600+. I’d like to use it in a drag car set up I’m building up.

The tube kit mod is a oil restriction to the tappet. You would need to drill a hole in the peened tube @.060 or less.

It is easier to farm out the work but it can be done at home. You will need a drill long bit at least 1/2 the blocks length to drill the oil galley.

According to the MP books, for a roller cam it is required but I have not read (or remembered) it’s “need” for a solid lifter cam. To control the amount of oil that “bleeds” through the OE oil feed to the lifters, (A huge hole) this mod should be done.

Not that I’m an engine building pro at this level but I don’t see where it would hurt. I also gigue that a cam like this would have supporting parts like a deep pan and maybe a high volume oil pump.
 
Oh! Who’s that big MoPar guy in northern Ga.?
IIRC (I doubt it but...) in the Winder area? Or so?
There and is on the tip of my tounge.
Call’em and report back.
Perhaps a shout out to 0u812, ou812

Of IMM would help when he logs on? I’m sure Brian can answer this question solidly for us.

It maybe desirable but not needed.
 
Last edited:
It can and was used in solid flat tappet applications, the main purpose was to stop the 16 "leaks" around the body of the lifter, supplying more oil to the bottom and, and also reducing windage loss. The better way, if it's in the budget, is to have the lifter bores "trued" and bushed individually, that way they are perfectly straight, and clearance can be perfected. The lifter then receive there oil via splash from the rotating assy, and drain back in the lifter valley.
 
Depends on the rpm range you're looking at running and the clearances in the lower end.
 
A while ago I had Dave Webber aka Ritter and Webber do a 360 motor. Hughes solid cam 584/604 268/272 and he bushed the lifter bores.
 
You can use the tube kit, or bush the lifter bores. The tube kit & peening tool is still available but the bit & reamer is not. I've been looking for the bit & reamer for over a year.
 
moper said:
Depends on the rpm range you're looking at running and the clearances in the lower end.
Click to expand...
His build is a small cube, high rpm nostalgia gasser build..... like leave the line at 6500 plus
 
Yes, do it. There is no reason NOT to do it.

The reamer is available from any tool house. You can buy the tubing from the same place. I use MSC, but I've been buying tooling from them since probably the early 1990's but any good tool supply company will have the reamer.

Let me give you a tip.

It is not required (and is probably a really BAD idea) to press the tube in. What I'm saying is...buy the tubing FIRST and measure the O.D. and then order the reamer so that you have .0010-.0000 press fit.

I always lightly polish the O.D. of the tube before I install it and it can actually even technically fall in if you want it to and it won't matter. It can't be like socks on a rooster, but you don't need to beat your guts out to get it in. Once you peen the tube it can never come out so it can slip in, and I slip fit all mine.

You also don't need to angle cut the tube. Just cut them square and forget it. Make sure they go past the last lifter bore from each and and that's fine.

I made my own peen tool, but you can use an old lifter and round off the edges. It ain't rocket surgery. Don't forget to redrill the feed galley passages from the lifter bank to the mains. Drill them all to 9/32 and I know guys who love to go .312, but the hole that feeds those passages is still the same size, so making the feeds much bigger than .287ish (9/32) is not really needed.

Once you get that done, you hone the lifter bores LIGHTLY and VERIFY that the lifter will fall on its own down that bore. Even after peening the tube will make the bore tight, and if you don't fix it, you WILL fail a cam. I take a paper roll and lightly polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bore after peening. Then a light light hone, verify the lifter will fall down the bore and you are golden.

Do it. There is no reason.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Oh! Who’s that big MoPar guy in northern Ga.?
IIRC (I doubt it but...) in the Winder area? Or so?
There and is on the tip of my tounge.
Call’em and report back.
Perhaps a shout out to 0u812, ou812

Of IMM would help when he logs on? I’m sure Brian can answer this q[/Q

If not needed then Im not doing it !
Click to expand...
 
Its time to make it happen
Oil improvements that is .

20180929_164331.jpg


20180929_164259.jpg
 
yellow rose said:
Yes, do it. There is no reason NOT to do it.

The reamer is available from any tool house. You can buy the tubing from the same place. I use MSC, but I've been buying tooling from them since probably the early 1990's but any good tool supply company will have the reamer.

Let me give you a tip.

It is not required (and is probably a really BAD idea) to press the tube in. What I'm saying is...buy the tubing FIRST and measure the O.D. and then order the reamer so that you have .0010-.0000 press fit.

I always lightly polish the O.D. of the tube before I install it and it can actually even technically fall in if you want it to and it won't matter. It can't be like socks on a rooster, but you don't need to beat your guts out to get it in. Once you peen the tube it can never come out so it can slip in, and I slip fit all mine.

You also don't need to angle cut the tube. Just cut them square and forget it. Make sure they go past the last lifter bore from each and and that's fine.

I made my own peen tool, but you can use an old lifter and round off the edges. It ain't rocket surgery. Don't forget to redrill the feed galley passages from the lifter bank to the mains. Drill them all to 9/32 and I know guys who love to go .312, but the hole that feeds those passages is still the same size, so making the feeds much bigger than .287ish (9/32) is not really needed.

Once you get that done, you hone the lifter bores LIGHTLY and VERIFY that the lifter will fall on its own down that bore. Even after peening the tube will make the bore tight, and if you don't fix it, you WILL fail a cam. I take a paper roll and lightly polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bore after peening. Then a light light hone, verify the lifter will fall down the bore and you are golden.

Do it. There is no reason.
Click to expand...
Yellow Rose - what state u live in ?
TX ?
 
yellow rose said:
Yes, do it. There is no reason NOT to do it.

The reamer is available from any tool house. You can buy the tubing from the same place. I use MSC, but I've been buying tooling from them since probably the early 1990's but any good tool supply company will have the reamer.

Let me give you a tip.

It is not required (and is probably a really BAD idea) to press the tube in. What I'm saying is...buy the tubing FIRST and measure the O.D. and then order the reamer so that you have .0010-.0000 press fit.

I always lightly polish the O.D. of the tube before I install it and it can actually even technically fall in if you want it to and it won't matter. It can't be like socks on a rooster, but you don't need to beat your guts out to get it in. Once you peen the tube it can never come out so it can slip in, and I slip fit all mine.

You also don't need to angle cut the tube. Just cut them square and forget it. Make sure they go past the last lifter bore from each and and that's fine.

I made my own peen tool, but you can use an old lifter and round off the edges. It ain't rocket surgery. Don't forget to redrill the feed galley passages from the lifter bank to the mains. Drill them all to 9/32 and I know guys who love to go .312, but the hole that feeds those passages is still the same size, so making the feeds much bigger than .287ish (9/32) is not really needed.

Once you get that done, you hone the lifter bores LIGHTLY and VERIFY that the lifter will fall on its own down that bore. Even after peening the tube will make the bore tight, and if you don't fix it, you WILL fail a cam. I take a paper roll and lightly polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bore after peening. Then a light light hone, verify the lifter will fall down the bore and you are golden.

Do it. There is no reason.
Click to expand...

Mongo - say u know your stuff ! Thank you and I wish I lived near ya I would pay u to perform install.

FB_IMG_1511270055523.jpg
 
The other benefit of the tubeing or bushing of the lifter bores is if your lifter comes out of the bore for some reason while running, especially at higher rpm’s, you will not have a big oil leak and starve the engine of oil.

At the rpl’s you intend I would also screen off the lifter valley areas so if parts do break they do not end up getting down into the rotating assembly or oil pan pickup.
 
Next question: What is the hardness of the copper tube? Like water piping, which is rigid copper? Or soft copper so it can be peened easily?
 
High rpm is only part of the equation. Clearances need to mandate it too. Personally, I wouldn't do it with a flat tappet and a trap rpm of 6500-7K but I like tighter clearances and very, very accurate machine work. I don't run the HV pumps either. If I did need to worry about it, they'd get bushed. That's just me though. As you read others have their own ideas.
 
Drilling the galley was a slow and nerve racking experience for me. Peening the tube down right made my butthole pucker. But it turned out just fine. My crossover tube is just to supply a small amount of oil to the lifters because I shut off the oil from leaving #1 main with set screw. I don’t trust “splash” oiling the lifters in a street engine.

78FF4760-711F-4F39-BA18-CEBC57F33501.jpeg


6F5297ED-F54C-484A-AA02-B5BC52590112.jpeg
 
yellow rose said:
Yes, do it. There is no reason NOT to do it.

The reamer is available from any tool house. You can buy the tubing from the same place. I use MSC, but I've been buying tooling from them since probably the early 1990's but any good tool supply company will have the reamer.

Let me give you a tip.

It is not required (and is probably a really BAD idea) to press the tube in. What I'm saying is...buy the tubing FIRST and measure the O.D. and then order the reamer so that you have .0010-.0000 press fit.

I always lightly polish the O.D. of the tube before I install it and it can actually even technically fall in if you want it to and it won't matter. It can't be like socks on a rooster, but you don't need to beat your guts out to get it in. Once you peen the tube it can never come out so it can slip in, and I slip fit all mine.

You also don't need to angle cut the tube. Just cut them square and forget it. Make sure they go past the last lifter bore from each and and that's fine.

I made my own peen tool, but you can use an old lifter and round off the edges. It ain't rocket surgery. Don't forget to redrill the feed galley passages from the lifter bank to the mains. Drill them all to 9/32 and I know guys who love to go .312, but the hole that feeds those passages is still the same size, so making the feeds much bigger than .287ish (9/32) is not really needed.

Once you get that done, you hone the lifter bores LIGHTLY and VERIFY that the lifter will fall on its own down that bore. Even after peening the tube will make the bore tight, and if you don't fix it, you WILL fail a cam. I take a paper roll and lightly polish the tube where it breaks through the lifter bore after peening. Then a light light hone, verify the lifter will fall down the bore and you are golden.

Do it. There is no reason.
Click to expand...

I can vouch for what yellow rose is saying about making sure the lifters move completely free after peening the tube.
I had one stick on me many years ago and chewed up a lifter real bad. Also you will have to thread the ends of the galley after reaming. I thread mine to 1/2 inch pipe. Also when threading the front of the galley, test fit the pipe plug and make sure that the plug gets tight "before" it blocks the feed passage down to number 1 main
Very important. Also I would not drill the galley, I would ream it because,drills can wander and a reamer will not cut oversize so you will get a better fit.
 
It was a (IIRC) approximately a 1/2 reamer (drill bit) 12 inches long.
The tubes outside diameter was was just under to be able to slide in. You cut the tube length to one half of the blocks inner galley. Drill/ream from front and back side of the block, fit the tube half way and make sure they meet in the middle.

The peen tool was a solid .904 diameter bullet shaped slug of steel to be driven past the tube.

The tool to drill the hole in the peened tube looks like anlifter with a slice taken out of it and a hole for the drill bit to guide it to the tube and hold it steady so you can drill the hole in the tube.

All parts are pretty much made of unobtainum these days. Except the tube and drill bit which can be obtained at any decently stocked hardware store.
YL gave good instructions on that.

An old lifter ground down can be the peen tool. Drilling into the peened tube can be a trick. But shouldn’t be overly difficult.
 
rumblefish360 said:
6,500 & a dump of the clutch?

Do it.... just do it!
Click to expand...
I got a buddie that dumps the clutch at 8200 to 9400 , depending on the track conditions.
It was even scary to watch his playback tach , even when the engine wasn`t running, I started backing up the first time I SAW IT .---lol
 
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