Need a favor from those with SBM and power steering.

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JoePole1 said:
Great input. Finally some progress. Pulled the clutch/fan assembly and fired it up. Noise was noticeably less. Pulled the fan pulley and took a file to both sides of the v groove. Also same to the PS pump pulley in the car. In hindsight I should have done one at a time. Fired it up and quieter yet and possibly at higher rpm. Snugged the belt down tight and the screech now comes in about 3000 RPM and definitely not nearly as loud. Before it would make me cringe. Tolerable now. Looks like it may be from the Fan pulley. I'm headed to The Carlisle Chrysler Nationals this weekend and will be looking for pulleys. If not I can probably scuff these up better. Someone on Mike69cuda's thread above mentioned sand blasting the pulleys. Thanks for all of your help!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Good experiment! So if you removed the fan, and it still squealed, I would take that to mean that the fan load is not the culprit, or at least not all of the problem.

Interesting that it squealed less, I wonder if that was because of the load water pump and fan together were causing the belt squeal and reducing the load lowered the squeal?

Or does it mean that the the problem is not the fan pulley and just a difference belt tension reduced the squealing? My brain hurts.....
 
I am at work today so I cant take any other pics. Not really sure what you are saying but there is the one (triangular) bracket on the front and a single arm type in the back (arrow) that attaches to the block. Are you saying there should be another below that?? I believe the spacer is OK because it fits snug in between the front and rear pump brackets. My alignment got better when I put washers in at the water pump and behind the spacer bracket as seen in picture.
I now have 2 washers at the back of pump and one at the pump so alignment is better yet but no pic. Thanks.

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JoePole1 said:
I am at work today so I cant take any other pics. Not really sure what you are saying but there is the one (triangular) bracket on the front and a single arm type in the back (arrow) that attaches to the block. Are you saying there should be another below that?? I believe the spacer is OK because it fits snug in between the front and rear pump brackets. My alignment got better when I put washers in at the water pump and behind the spacer bracket as seen in picture.
I now have 2 washers at the back of pump and one at the pump so alignment is better yet but no pic. Thanks.

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That is not the bracket your pointing to. I'll get some pictures today.
 
The picture of the parts on the desk are two triangle brackets at the bottom they are different shapes but are the same brackets. I am holding the bracket in my hand I don't see on your pictures. The pumps on the floor are performance 340 . The one on the car is 318.

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JoePole1 said:
The thing that kills me is that it's a simple system. Not like rebuilding a transmission or performing rocket surgery. Shouldn't be this difficult.
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Process of Elimination

See you have a double belted AC car there, double belt on the Alternator too. Make sure these 2 components are not part of the problem and their belts. Alt pullies can squeal, AC clutches can Squeal, AC pumps can start going bad turning hard, 2 old belts to squeal trying to turn 50 year old parts and worn pullies.

Get it all checked out to make sure all components are good, free rolling bearings.

All back together, start it up at a fast idle. Turn the steering wheel to full lock to the right and hold it there. That puts a good load on the PS Pump and wiil make a belt squeal if things are not right.

Process of Elimination . . .
 
George Jets said:
Process of Elimination

See you have a double belted AC car there, double belt on the Alternator too. Make sure these 2 components are not part of the problem and their belts. Alt pullies can squeal, AC clutches can Squeal, AC pumps can start going bad turning hard, 2 old belts to squeal trying to turn 50 year old parts and worn pullies.

Get it all checked out to make sure all components are good, free rolling bearings.

All back together, start it up at a fast idle. Turn the steering wheel to full lock to the right and hold it there. That puts a good load on the PS Pump and wiil make a belt squeal if things are not right.

Process of Elimination . . .
Click to expand...
George. Pretty much did this already. Removed AC/alt belts. Removed fan. Checked for bad bearings at water pump, alt and AC.
Only time it stops is with PS belt removed. Thanks.
 
Reviving this one. I was back at it again this weekend. I added the missing triangular plate in the PS mounting brackets. Mine was missing even though this set-up ran fine for many years. Still getting a loud screech from the pump or belt starting at 2300RPM. The alignment (straight edge) looks good. I removed the belt and slowly spinning the pump pulley I do get some runout in two places. Bent pulley??? but how??? There is also in/out play on the pump shaft but I had that with the replacement pump I tried. That pump did made the same noise and would kind of point at the pulley but how would it have gotten bent?? I don't have another and don't really want to keep swapping more parts on this. Any thoughts? No issues for 10 yrs with my set-up.
Here is what I have tried.....
Isolated power steering issue. Remove belt, goes away.
New Gates belt. NG
Checked noise, play or wear felt in pump bearing. All good.
Replaced pump briefly. NG. Pump lines were different and did not plumb correctly and shaft end play worse than mine.
Swapped my original pump back in.
Shimmed brackets to better align pulleys. NG
Swapped in missing triangular bracket. NG

I do notice that I can move the sound in RPM range with belt tension.
 
I had this problem for a long time. Sand the sides of your power steering belt so it is a little rough and put it back on. That fixed mine.
 
Running w/o the second bracket could have caused enough vibration that over time that your pulley or PS pump shaft bent and is causing your pulley runout. If there is runout, then the belt tension is going to change as the PS pump rotates. There could be enough change that it's slipping intermittently as it's spinning and causing your grief.

One hint that this may be accurate is that belt tension changes the rpm range when it squeals. That tells me the amount of force/torque required at that rpm to spin the pump starts to overcome your belt tension. More tension is likely to aggravate the runout issue too. It sounds like you're going to need a good replacement pump and/or pulley and a decent belt along with your now complete bracket set.

Just my $.02 though. Hard to diagnose these kinds of things over the internet, but I can't imagine any amount of pulley runout helping your problem.
 
Refresh my memory. What kind of fan are you running? As I stated a while back, the only issues I’ve ever had with belt slipping was due to the heavy fan resistance at higher RPM. Hopefully this is the case with your setup.

*I’ve had this issue on more than one vehicle SBM*

This is why I now run the setup pictured.

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Yeah I don't see the triangular support bracket on there either.
Saginaw pumps do not usually have end play . Thompson Federals often do and seem to work just fine that way.
You can prove a squeaky belt by pouring water on it; and the noise goes away. I have never been able to doctor a squealing belt, or pulleys, to make it go away. For me, the only solution was a new replacement belt.
If you don't have a triangle on there, and you add one, then you will have to check ALL your water-pump bolt lengths. Of the 4 long ones, there are at least three different lengths. And the top driver's side hole goes into the water-jacket. Some guys have put a too-long bolt in that location and driven it right into the cylinder wall and cracking it; with predictable results; don't be that guy.
Ohcrap, late to the party, sorry
 
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Mopar73340 said:
Sorry I don’t know the answer, but over the years have seen many a P/S pump not lined up on a SBM. I’ve had several the same way and the only issues I ever had was for the belt to make some noise while revving in neutral due to the fan.

Botton line is I don’t believe the small amount of possible misalignment is the issue and most likely it’s the fan pulley that is slipping.

I recently converted to a serpentine setup to cure the belt issue with the A/C but even with that I had to make some modifications to the spacing to get things lined up correctly.
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What serpentine set up did u buy??
 
Thanks guys for the input. I left some info out.
Mike..... I sanded down the pulley as you suggested last year but not the belt. Will try.
AJ.....Bracket has been added. Picture outdated. Bolts all good. Will try water.
Phreakish....Will remove pulley and check/measure for bend.
Mopar....running viscous with 7 blade fan. Working good.
Stroker.....Goes away when I remove PS/fan/crank belt.
 
This morning I followed some of your suggestions. I removed the PS belt and filed down the edges. I also ran the file across the pulley on both sides of the groove. Fired it up and still screech starting at 2300rpm. I then wet down the belt and pulley with water. Sound goes away until water is flung off or dries in a few seconds. This is a gates belt and only has about 1000 miles on it. I replaced it after figuring it may be a belt issue. The old belts I removed do the same. ARGH!!!!!
 
If you ever got anti freeze in the belts and or pullies that will make them squeek.

Some folks have rubbed a bar of soap on the sides of the belt to stop the squeaking.

Sand the pullies then clean them with dustilled water.

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Does your belt have cogs like in pic? If not maybe pic up a cheap belt with cogs and see if it helps if not you always have a spare.
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I tried soap previously and did not effect. Tried again today. Still Ng. Sanded the belt and pulleys with 80 grit. Actual!y did it with engine running. Shhhh...dont tell wife. Cleaned with distilled water. NG. I'm beginning to second guess myself. Could it be something else that uses the same belt? The belt drives the PS, water pump/fan and I have a 3 groove crank pulley. It is very difficult to isolate the sound with the engine running at a high rpm. Can't be the crank because that is always driven. So I removed the viscous fan assembly and ran it. NG. Maybe the water pump bearing but I would think it would be at all speeds. I shot the WP shaft at the bearing with WD40 and let it soak. Dunno if it worked it's way in there. NFG.
Maybe I will find another PS pulley since it does have some slight runout to it. Tried a reman pump last year so doubt it is the shaft but they both had lateral play (in/out). Figured it was normal Does someone have a known good pump that can check for shaft play for me?
 
Gotcha. Looks good. Maybe a non cog then just to see if it helps ? Just guessing at this point.
 
JoePole1 said:
This morning I followed some of your suggestions. I removed the PS belt and filed down the edges. I also ran the file across the pulley on both sides of the groove. Fired it up and still screech starting at 2300rpm. I then wet down the belt and pulley with water. Sound goes away until water is flung off or dries in a few seconds. This is a gates belt and only has about 1000 miles on it. I replaced it after figuring it may be a belt issue. The old belts I removed do the same. ARGH!!!!!
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It's the belt or the ps pulley or the water pump pulley. Maybe the belt is bottoming out in one of the pulleys. Try a wider belt maybe? May have glazed that belt from it slipping. You are getting closer. Steve
 
I do not run cog belts as it decreases the grip surface of the belt.
Typically belts squeal when they lose traction.
Are you positive you have the belt tight enough?
 
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