need help/ not charging..I think

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HemiDenny

HemiDenny

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I'm having (an electrical?) problem and before I start tearing wires apart I thought I should first determine if I have the car wired correctly.

The battery is in the trunk and I ran the battery cable up to a bulkhead terminal located near the engine compartment. From there I ran individual 10ga wire to the starter relay, the starter and thru the fuseable link to the engine compartment side of the connector (bulkhead) block.

The alternator/amp guage is broken; the needle appears to have fallen off when I re-installed the dash bezel (being replaced/repaired now). I didn't realize/notice it until it was completely installed.

Regardless, the car starts/started fine...when fully charged that is. It starts running poorly after 5 minutes (like a faulty coil)....so I replaced the coil and charged the battary and went for a ride (with the parking lights on of course).

After 60 miles, when I stopped for fuel and restarted the car, it cranked with the symptoms of a weak battery (not the hard start of too much timing).

When I arrived back home (without the lights on) I could feel a HP/power drop in the accelerator pedal....but at least I made it. I 2-amp charged it back up and it appears to have it's power back. Soooo...I thinking I got a charging problem. The first up is to check if I have it (re) wired correctly. Maybe I made a obvious mistake and did something wrong....if not....I'll go buy a meter and get to work

The only difference between this battary re-location and the other half dozen cars I've done is that on this install I ran a separate wire from the battary connection bulkhead terminal to the engine compartment fuseable link bulkhead. Does this connection need to go thru the starter relay? Could it be that simple?

Thanks in advance for your help and advise

Denny
 
I can't chastise you for lack of description, but I still don't follow

How "factory" is the rest of the wiring, I'm guessing pretty much?

You using the factory style isolated field alternator, factory 70/ later regulator?

No10 MAY be a little small, although that is what the factory used for accessory/ charging wiring. You have any fans/ pumps/ other big accessories?


Quickest way to check is a voltmeter

Find out first if you have a drop through the harness/ bulkhead. Turn key to "run", engine off.

Hook one probe to your big terminal where the main cable comes up front (closest you can get to battery positive)

Hook the other probe to your ignition feed coming out of the bulkhead. If you still run factory ignition, this would be the "key" side of the ballast resistor, the traditional "dark blue."

You don't want to see more than 1/2 volt, and that's generous


Now see if the regulator/ alternator are getting field power.

Pull loose the regulator plug, ground one probe of the meter, an probe both terminals in the regulator plug. With key in "run" you should see power at BOTH

If this is OK, Start the car, run at an RPM to simulate "low cruise" and check voltage to ground at your "big stud" where the battery cable comes up front. You should show a MINIMUM of 13.5, and you want to see more like 14.

I would usually suggest you inspect/ suspect the bulkhead connector, but you've had that apart "in the build" right?
 
thats for the reply 67Dart273.....I will follow your advise as soon as I get a voltmeter..

the rest of the wiring is "factory"...not sure which regulator I purchased from Mancicni but was pretty sure it was year ('74) correct for Mopar electronic ignition kit I purchased for the Hemi along with the PowerMaster 50amp alternator I puchased from Year One.

other than the battary re-location...I keep it as "stock"...electrically speaking as possible
no pumps..fans...not even a radio...

did add line lock and overdrive..but they hardly have any draw..I would think



thanks again for the advise,
Denny
 
You should hook a voltmeter up to the system and turn on the ign. Should show 12V. Start up the engine and the voltage should go higher. If it doesn't the alternator is not charging or there is not a connection between the alternator output and the car wiring. I personally hate amp gauges as they do not really tell the story. If it is not charging check that you have 12V to the alternator field from the regulator. Maybe the blade connector (single wire or dual wire with one leg grounded) is disconnected. That was the problem with my rod and I discovered .2 in the 1/8 by having it disconnected so I put a switch in.

Good luck.
 
Thanks Green1.....if what you say is correct...it just may be the problem

I dissassembled the guage cluster tonight and ....
the ampmeter is junk...the needle fell out because the guts are pretty much gone....

luckily I found I have several other..... leftovers... and will install one ...just to see how it acts. I never drove the car when I got it, so this could have easily been NFG from years ago.

I guess I'd better stand-by and be alert when I fire it back up...just in case....however I've already put a couple hundred miles on it since the ...lets say ....transformation

thanks for the assistance
Denny
 
If the ammeter is not making connection, and I guess that's what the above post is guessing, you won't have any power in the car. You don't need an ammeter, you just need the two wires jumpered together, either bolted to the same stud on the ammeter (just in case) or with a separate bolt/ nut/ taped.

But once again, if the ammeter was not making continuous contact, the car would not have power, would not crank or start, etc.
 
the wires were bolted correctly to their respected studs....just no guts where the needle attaches.....but the terminals were connected together internally.....it started ... and ran ......all other guages/electrial/wipers/lights/ect worked OK

back to the drawing board...and will get a meter tomorrow...any suggestions on the meter?
 
changed out the ammeter.....used my borrowed (POS) meter...and got meter reading 0f 12volts....depending how you hold it.....if it was mine ...it would be in the trash.....in pieces...

I will buy one tomorrow....for accurate readings

I did deduce that I have power to both pins on the voltage regulator....and it appears there is no voltage drop thru the firewall bulkhaed...I checked that at the steering column connector on the column side

when running at mild rpm...maybe 1500rpm...the guage keeps on the negative side and never goes to the positive side...even with a major rpm increase.....I'm assuming it is NOT charging

also the borrowed NFG meter never increases in voltage over the "key on" /not running reading

whats next?
 
Even a cheap Radio Shack digi meter should be OK, and you should be able to buy an "automotive" slanted meter at most parts stores for 20-50 bucks

I own Fluke meters, but that's another story.
 
I think is its your alt doesn't have enough amps. Remember that the futher away you move something the charge has to travel that much futher. I'd step the alt up to an 80 amp (every car I moved the battery or ran bigger wires gone a bigger alt in it, never had a problem).
 
67 dart 273 sent me this to convert the amp gage to volts. I think amps are not nearly as useful as volts and if I put back in the stock dash this will get done:. Thanks again 67dart273! Like I said, check voltage to the field terminals and the output from the alternator. You can also carry the alternator in to a shop to get checked out.

I'd have to Google it. I did exactly the same thing, did not even change the needle pointer. It's a little shorter than the temp gauge, but I don't care

I think this is the thread I took off on. Scroll down to post no10 by Quantum 53

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...d.php?t=119480

This is a Sunpro gauge, I think about 20 bucks through Summit and others. Basically what I did was: Ground/ cut the crimp ring/ glass off the Sun Pro gauge, and removed the guts, then removed the face, I believe it's screwed on.

Then use a dremel or other tool to remove the face off your stock ammeter, it's riveted on. Carefully take your time and lay one face over the other to "integrate" where they need to go. You'll have to elongage/ drill new holes in the old faceplate, then just screw in on to the new meter guts. I'm not sure--I think I had to elongage the mounting holes in the PC board.

You will note that the SunPro has a tiny adjustment behind the pointer/ face. You can adjust the reading. When you get the thing mounted on the new ammeter face, use an accurate power source --or your car charging, and verify with a digi meter--and adjust the reading on the new meter to "where you want" I put 14V at exactly the center, so when I'm going down the road, it's charging, and running correctly at 13.8-14V, the needle is in the center just like it was an ammeter.

To get an idea of what it "looks like," use your digi meter on the battery, and leave your headlights on for a couple minutes, engine off. This will pull the battery down just a bit to 12-12.2 or that area, and look at your new meter so you know "where it is."

I used a little dab of silcone rubber over on the far right side of the oil panel to glue it to the cluster, and keep it firmly in place.

Hope this helps ya.
 
so...let me get this straight....

I have 12volts up thru the bulkhead with key in run position..motor not running...thats good

when motor is running I still have only 12 volts...checked at positive battery lug near engine compartment....thats bad...means not charging

all dash lights /switches/guages/ now working as designed...thats good

it just dawned on me that the local automotive electric repair shop that changed out the stock plated pully for my matching powdercoated pulley said they had to disassemble the alternator to install the pulley....I'm just spitballing ...but I'll bet they forked something up.....

It will be at their repair shop tomorrow for sure
 
Hard to say if they did/ did not.

Next thing you can check, is identify the wire ---should be green--that goes from one field terminal to the regulator

Disconnect that from the alternator, and ground the exposed alternator terminal

Now see if it charges, and it should put out 'full output'. This will tell you if the alternator works, and if it does, it will tell you that you either have a bad regulator or a problem in the regulator wiring.
 
got it...and thanks for stickin with me on this

what is "full output"...and how do I check it...same as before by checking the voltage at the positive lug coming up from the battery?

and how will it tell me regarding the regulator?
 
You have no output now, so if you hook up as I described, this will bypass the regulator and cause the alternator to go to "full output" if it is capable of operating.

As the engine RPM is increased, the voltage will go up, so yes, check voltage at the battery, and don't allow the voltage to go above 16 or so.
 
Do you have 2 spade connectors or one on the back of the alternator? If only one with the engine running when you put 12v to the spade and the alternator will kick out full 60A (in the case of the one I have on my 340) and if your headlights are on they should get brighter. If you have 2 spades then you can ground one of those and touch 12v to the other and get the same result.

The wire(s) come from the output of the regulator which sits on the firewall in front of the driver. My 340 fish has a single wire and the output wire is on the top. BTW, that is where I have the switch (I run the connection between the regulator to the alternator inside through the switch) that cuts the power from the regulator output to the spade on back of the altrnator to turn off the power to the alternator, reducing power draw from the engine since no engine power is used to make the 60 amps and it speeds me up a tad.

If you have a 2 wire alternator the regulator will have a plug that the wires to the alternator - that 2 wire regulator is supposed to be better but talking with an old school chrystler alternator repair shop guy may not really be better after all.

Good luck. If this stuff does not make your lights brighter or the alternator output voltage higher then they may have screwed up the alternator. That will be another topic but no big deal.
 
late last nite (Sunday), Floyd...ibleedmoparts...called and relayed his similiar problem with his freshly painted Powerwagon (?)....

to make a long story short...he suggested I remove the regulator and clean the paint off the mounting (contact) points of the regulator and freshly painted fenderwell.

that did the trick .....apparently the regular.. requires grounding (whoops)...and it is done thru the mounting points

Good job Floyd...
and thanks to all that tried to educate me

Mopar to 'ya
Denny
 
airwoofer said:
67 dart 273 sent me this to convert the amp gage to volts. I think amps are not nearly as useful as volts and if I put back in the stock dash this will get done:. Thanks again 67dart273! Like I said, check voltage to the field terminals and the output from the alternator. You can also carry the alternator in to a shop to get checked out.

I'd have to Google it. I did exactly the same thing, did not even change the needle pointer. It's a little shorter than the temp gauge, but I don't care

I think this is the thread I took off on. Scroll down to post no10 by Quantum 53

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...d.php?t=119480

This is a Sunpro gauge, I think about 20 bucks through Summit and others. Basically what I did was: Ground/ cut the crimp ring/ glass off the Sun Pro gauge, and removed the guts, then removed the face, I believe it's screwed on.

Then use a dremel or other tool to remove the face off your stock ammeter, it's riveted on. Carefully take your time and lay one face over the other to "integrate" where they need to go. You'll have to elongage/ drill new holes in the old faceplate, then just screw in on to the new meter guts. I'm not sure--I think I had to elongage the mounting holes in the PC board.

You will note that the SunPro has a tiny adjustment behind the pointer/ face. You can adjust the reading. When you get the thing mounted on the new ammeter face, use an accurate power source --or your car charging, and verify with a digi meter--and adjust the reading on the new meter to "where you want" I put 14V at exactly the center, so when I'm going down the road, it's charging, and running correctly at 13.8-14V, the needle is in the center just like it was an ammeter.

To get an idea of what it "looks like," use your digi meter on the battery, and leave your headlights on for a couple minutes, engine off. This will pull the battery down just a bit to 12-12.2 or that area, and look at your new meter so you know "where it is."

I used a little dab of silcone rubber over on the far right side of the oil panel to glue it to the cluster, and keep it firmly in place.

Hope this helps ya.
Click to expand...

I just ABOUT did not recognise my own writing, but the link no works for me

Here's one thread on the subject, I believe its "the one", and where I got the basis for my conversion

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=119480&highlight=ammeter+conversion
 
thanks...I'm just relievd to have it charging correctly....resume countdown..OK for liftoff
 
thank you Mark.....you got that 20/20 hindsight thing going on...
 
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