I want to add 3 point retractable seat belts on my 67 cuda. I know this has been talked about but I have not seen any pictures of what I want to do. I am thinking of doing a mount like this. Does anyone have pictures of this type of mount in a pre-70 a body (Barracuda would be best)?
New 3 point seat belts
- Thread starter drewmac
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Blind Squirrel
Well-Known Member
So a weird thing on this (at least the wife's GM product)and I know it's not completely specific to your situation. It seems that some car companies knew that safety changes were coming. I believe (don't quote me) that new federal guidelines were going to require head rests (maybe 69) and shoulder belts in the 1968 model year. In 67 GM actually had put in the mounts for both the shoulder belt and the headrests. I thought I was going to need to do a bunch of retro fitting for her 67 El Camino. Nope, she has shoulder belts and headrests for safety now exactly like the setup you have pictured. They mount at the B pillar about halfway (which you don't have) up at the stock location. They work great, except they are a little catchy when you first pull them out each time. You have to be easy and deliberate. I also know that Mopar had a weird way of dealing with the shoulder belts. At least in the 68 Super Bee and the 70 Duster that I have here. It is a separate belt and mounts at the roof line and is tucked/held up with clips. I don't think mom ever used them. My convoluted point is. There should be stock belt available to you for any year 68 and after. Barring that. I'm using aftermarket belt like your picture and I like them for the wife's ride. They look like they should be there.
Can you post a pic of the set up in your wife's car? Mine is a 67 so I don't think there is anything that is on the roof (I'd have to pull the headliner off to see).
Without pulling the headliner... If the coat hook is directly above the line where side glasses meet, there is no belt anchor hidden by the headliner. They put that belt anchor almost exactly were the coat hook was, Moved the coat hook about 4 inches rearward.
loganscuda
This/These
I believe you can still get the anchor point for the 69 and weld It in the factory location and use that setup. That’s what I was gonna do but since car was already painted I just put in BMW power seats with built in seat belt out of a 2005 vert
some of this has been covered/just remembered the thread
68 Barracuda shoulder strap question
68 Barracuda shoulder strap question
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Take a look at this thread below I screen shot. I have no idea how to add it here. Use search engine to find it.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Drewmac,
The reason I am going with the route I am going is the anchor point in the roof is solid and a proven attaching point with a lot of surface area forward and aft of the anchor point to absorb pulling force on impact which is why Chrysler used it in 1968/1969. I have a 69 notchback and a 67 notchback. No structural changes were made in this area except the addition of the anchor point about where the coat hook hole is on the 67.
Attaching the upper anchor point at the top of the quarter panel edge inner structure like that is a serious weak point. Theres not enough metal forward of the anchor point to absorb the load on an impact. None of us wants to think about the unthinkable, however when putting these things in your car, you have to think about the unthinkable. During a violent front or rear end collision. Depending on the impact speed, your body weight against an anchor point can triple your weight in force. Ex. a 225 lb man can exert 675 lbs on those anchor points on impact.
I used to work in the autobody industry and when repairing cars after impact damage we would replace the seatbelt assemblies that were used during the collision. They did their job that one time. However when I would remove them for replacement it was amazing to see how bent and twisted the retractor mechanisms were from being pulled against by a human body and the belts preventing it from flying through a windshield.
You can buy those convertable style shoulder belts and put them in a hardtop, but remember this, every aftermarket belt manufacturer has some lawyerese speak about how they arent responsible for the installation and use of them. Probably because of the non stock unproven anchor points. If they fail from a substandard mounting point and you eat the steering wheel they arent responsible. Plus they will interfere with the rear window cranks.
The reason I am going with the route I am going is the anchor point in the roof is solid and a proven attaching point with a lot of surface area forward and aft of the anchor point to absorb pulling force on impact which is why Chrysler used it in 1968/1969. I have a 69 notchback and a 67 notchback. No structural changes were made in this area except the addition of the anchor point about where the coat hook hole is on the 67.
Attaching the upper anchor point at the top of the quarter panel edge inner structure like that is a serious weak point. Theres not enough metal forward of the anchor point to absorb the load on an impact. None of us wants to think about the unthinkable, however when putting these things in your car, you have to think about the unthinkable. During a violent front or rear end collision. Depending on the impact speed, your body weight against an anchor point can triple your weight in force. Ex. a 225 lb man can exert 675 lbs on those anchor points on impact.
I used to work in the autobody industry and when repairing cars after impact damage we would replace the seatbelt assemblies that were used during the collision. They did their job that one time. However when I would remove them for replacement it was amazing to see how bent and twisted the retractor mechanisms were from being pulled against by a human body and the belts preventing it from flying through a windshield.
You can buy those convertable style shoulder belts and put them in a hardtop, but remember this, every aftermarket belt manufacturer has some lawyerese speak about how they arent responsible for the installation and use of them. Probably because of the non stock unproven anchor points. If they fail from a substandard mounting point and you eat the steering wheel they arent responsible. Plus they will interfere with the rear window cranks.
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That's great info. Looks like I will have to rethink. I'll pull the headliner and see what's up there.
I think I bought mine from XV racing. Went in with no mods. Fasten with three points, didn’t need any car mods.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Mikes69cuda if he doesnt have the upper anchor point on his early build 68, he will have to add it.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Drewmac notice the additional lower forward mount points for the belt end. They are made from 3/16" thick tubing.These are solid in the floor at a built up point at the outboard seat bracing for the front seats. Notice the square backup plate underneath. Also I used a piece of clear plastic and traced the location of the upper anchor point on my sons 69 notch, and my 67 notch overlapping it. You can see where the 67 coat hook is located and the 69 anchor point is located. Put 1/8" thick steel anchor plates up in the roof with nuts welded to them. The belt anchor bolt threads remained SAE up through the 1990s. I have several extras I cut out of a dodge dakota I scrapped.
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68 and up is a lot simpler than 67 and earlier.
I don't know if this quarter wall by the window winder is/was strong enough for a seat belt anchor. When factory did similar 3 point in 74 and later models they routed the belt through the panel and put the retracter inside and bolted down at the rocker. If my memory serves, they had to limit how far the quarter window would roll down also.
What you want to do might look good on paper but... will the belt pull down on or slip off your shoulder? Will it be all kind of in the way going in and out of back seat? It is sort of like convertibles but those have high back seats and belt routes through a loop mounted high on the seat. That belt still gets in the way of going in and out back seat but at least it doesn't pull down on or slip off shoulder.
A test to see will it work, will you like it... Pull interior trim as needed to put small c clamp or some sort of temporary tether there. A length belt, rope, whatever. I would route the belt down to a brick in the floor so to see how its in the path. Let us know what you decide.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Personally I will very rarely have people in the back seat of my car. I will have belts back there just in case though. I feel it's always going to be a minor inconvenience getting in the rear seat whichever way you have them mounted in any 2 door car. 2 door cars dont typically have a whole entourage of people with you driving somewhere. That's why theres 4 door cars. Safety is not convienent, unless its passive restraints like airbag. These shoulder belts with retractors make it more convienent than the OEM from the 60s was
Drewmac I understand why you want to mount them low, so it doesnt detract from that cool hardtop look with all the windows rolled down. I suppose that's why the factory made those funky 2 piece lap/shoulder belt setups with the double buckles for those years. They were inconvenient as heck to use. Myself I dont mind seeing the belt when the windows are rolled down. I am more concerned with my safety than the belt being hidden for the car to "look good". Heres a pic of another car with a setup like the one I will be putting on both cudas I have. TBH it looks like it belongs there. The belts even follow the seatback line, just like chrysler themselves could have designed it had the technology been present in 1968.
Drewmac I understand why you want to mount them low, so it doesnt detract from that cool hardtop look with all the windows rolled down. I suppose that's why the factory made those funky 2 piece lap/shoulder belt setups with the double buckles for those years. They were inconvenient as heck to use. Myself I dont mind seeing the belt when the windows are rolled down. I am more concerned with my safety than the belt being hidden for the car to "look good". Heres a pic of another car with a setup like the one I will be putting on both cudas I have. TBH it looks like it belongs there. The belts even follow the seatback line, just like chrysler themselves could have designed it had the technology been present in 1968.
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Yeah, my only point was that with the ones I bought I didn’t need to add a fourth mounting point low on the outside. That was my goal.
Correct, 69 is easier because of the shoulder bolt mount already being there.
Correct, 69 is easier because of the shoulder bolt mount already being there.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Mikes69cuda I agree with that statement. I bought the Wesco belts for my 67, and afterwards realized I needed the other lower anchor point. $213 buy in for a pair of fronts and a matching pair of rears. I was ok with that. I worked out a decent solution. So I made a second set of anchor points for my sons 69 notch.
Yeah, I had a hard time finding 3 point. Somebody on the forum suggested them I think. They were pretty pricey though. I think I paid about $180 for front only.
Matt's got some good points as does everyone.
I recently purchased the book of assembly plant drawings for 67-9 a-bodies. The drawings confirm that '67 front shoulder belts were attached to rear seat belt anchor points. Looking at at the convertible drawings now, '68-9 'verts continued that practice. So that would suggest that at least with these models, the sides were not reinforced and a weaker location as Matt2000 was saying.
I recently purchased the book of assembly plant drawings for 67-9 a-bodies. The drawings confirm that '67 front shoulder belts were attached to rear seat belt anchor points. Looking at at the convertible drawings now, '68-9 'verts continued that practice. So that would suggest that at least with these models, the sides were not reinforced and a weaker location as Matt2000 was saying.
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