New Engine

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Bob.B.

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Would anyone know where would be the best place to purchase a remanufactured hiperformance replacement for a 440 magnum for a decent price. This is my very first ever project with a mopar and it s a 70 cuda 440 magnum. Like to put away the original motor and go with something much stronger for driving around since the original engine is kinda tired and don t want to push it. Also, does anyone recommend the marine engines as far as durability at all?
I would highly appreciate any help I can get in this matter. Thank you all. :notworth:
Bob.B
 
Many places seel "crate" style engines. Marine engines are almost identical, except for the CCW versions. As far as a 'good" price, that depends on what you have already, and what you want, and how far away it is. The 416 I just shipped was $500 to get to his house in CA, from CT. A decent performance 440 long block with good parts, and all the good machining, will cost in the $3500 range. Check the "for sale" adds here..
 
moper said:
Many places seel "crate" style engines. Marine engines are almost identical, except for the CCW versions. As far as a 'good" price, that depends on what you have already, and what you want, and how far away it is. The 416 I just shipped was $500 to get to his house in CA, from CT. A decent performance 440 long block with good parts, and all the good machining, will cost in the $3500 range. Check the "for sale" adds here..
Thank you Moper,
These Crate engines that you ' re talking about, are they the New Chrysler crate engines or just different companies like http://www.hiperformer.com/. This company mentions a 440 package for a cuda for the price of $1599 without a core.Can you check this out and let me know what you think. Also, what you mean about marine engines is that they can be used as well right? what is the CCW versions. I ve been told that Chrysler offers Marine engines over 500 cu inches up to 600. Is that true? Thanx again for the info you provided. Looking forward to hear your opinion. :salut:
Regards,
Bob.B
 
BJR Racing said:
Bob B, E-mail me and I'll get you set up.


BJR Racing
Hello there at BJR,
Could I have your E-mail address please. Thank you.
 
I would say any engine selling at $1500 w/o exchange is junk. Dont have to look, or go to the link. The parts that a good engien requires will cost almost that alone, nevermind the machining, which I'm sure is not done with current equipment. There are no crate engine new unless its from Mopar performance, and those are of average quality. I'dsay you're looking at a 30-40% return rate witha MP crate motor. But there are plenty of places that can supply engines of similar make up..I call them "crate style" because they come complete, oil pan to intake, ready to bolt on a carb, exh, and install. Like the MP crate engines. Quality varies as much as the pricing, but if you see anything under about $4000, it's compromising stuff somewhere. Marine engines came in normal rotation (Clockwise) or reverse rotation (Counter Clock wise). Doesnt mean much until you try to run a CCW crank in a factory car setup, and the rear main starts leaking like mad, because the little oil grooves the factory cut are now pointing the wrong way. replace the crank, and you're ok. Size wise, I've never heard of larger than 440, but I'm no boat guy..They might have. I dont like marine cores, because a lot of them use the water they are in to cool the engine..If fresh, the block may be very rusty inside, and thin where you cant have it. There's a reason they tossed it out. If it's from salt water, it's junk anyway..same reason. A friend works at a marine shop, and in many instances, they just remove and toss the old ones..dont bother rebuilding, because the castings are so corroded inside. The items to look for in your search..Do they replace all worn parts? items like valve springs, valves, guides, main and head bolts, pushrods, rockers and shafts? What does the engine come with exactly? New fuel pump? water pump? the w/p housing? a factory intake? will they install a higher performance cam if it's not in there? What type of machines do they use to do the work? Stone valve jobs should be a thing of the past. Hardened exh seats should be installed to if it's billed as a street engine. Do they blueprint the block? Degree the cam? check rocker geometry? All rebuilts have new rings, bearings, core plugs, oil pump and screen, cam, timing set, stuff like that. But new and quality are not the same. You pay for nicer parts. Most places cringe if you ask these questions, they may say "thats a race only thing" or "our equipment is similar" or "there is no difference in what we use and the good stuff". The difference is in the lifespan, and the power produced. It's as simple as that. For a high performance rebuild with a little more power than stock, and much better running, I would say $3500 will do ya. I can do them for that easy with a core engine. For things like a better intake than stock, better pistons, and decent compression, a new oil pan, dipstick, valve covers, water pump, thermostat, and carb, it will run closer to $4500. I like to say, for under 400hp, figure $9/hp. For 400-450hp $10/hp for 450-500 $12/hp. for 500-550hp $15. Cores can be from $300-900 depending on needs.
 
I agree with moper, you definitly get what you pay for. My good friend has a 71 challenger r/t that was originally a 383 car and when he bought it it had a 440 in it. He has the original 383 in the garage, and the 440 in it is mild except for edelbrock heads. The car performs very well on a stock type lower end with edelbrock top end. A 440 in an e body even in mild form will perform very well.
 
What Bob B is talking about at http://www.hiperformer.com is a basic overhauled long block- not a complete engine- you will still need valve covers, intake, carb, exhaust, oil pan, timing cover, ect, ect.... So $1598 isn't that bad of a deal- its a stock rebuild- not a hot rod race motor. (and there is a $300 core charge on the 440's) So I'd say if you just want a 440 that runs and has a warranty (pretty good one too-100,000 miles /7 years!) then go for one of these places- or look for a machine shop locally- I know my shop builds engines for people all the time that don't have a core.- It just depends on what you want- you want a super wazoo tire shredder then this isn't it- you'll have to look else where! :thumblef:
 
The motor, even in shortblock form, isnt that good. For $1900 you can have align hone, internal balancing, better rods bolts and good pistons. Not stock replacement stuff. The place I use has a 1yr warranty on complete engines, when it's built with their parts..regardless of useage or milage. Knowledge is the key. I alway like to be heavily involved in my engines, so I'd be looking for a local shop with a good reputation, new equipment, and isnt afraid of mopars.

For my own info, I used the link. I will say this, for a mass rebuilder, they say they do some good steps. But, the parts are sub par IMO. I'm not sure if they reuse rocker shafts, they dont say. They also dont replace rod bolts, or re-seize rods..They say they "hone" them..That's making sure the big end is round..not refinishing a rod. The engine is not balanced..It's what ever it is when it's done. Badger pistons are cheap, and heavy, and dont allow for decent compression(even advertised in the case of a HP version) in any form. The timing set is a plain stock unit..not even a double, nevermind double roller. It is assembled, but not blueprinted. So, it's ok. I wouldnt spend $1600 on it, I'd spend the $1900 and get decent parts, and the job done to my expectations..Which are higher than most "industry standards" that they seem to be touting. Just my $.02. At least they use a Serdi on the heads, even if it's only 3 angle.
 
moper said:
I would say any engine selling at $1500 w/o exchange is junk. Dont have to look, or go to the link. The parts that a good engien requires will cost almost that alone, nevermind the machining, which I'm sure is not done with current equipment. There are no crate engine new unless its from Mopar performance, and those are of average quality. I'dsay you're looking at a 30-40% return rate witha MP crate motor. But there are plenty of places that can supply engines of similar make up..I call them "crate style" because they come complete, oil pan to intake, ready to bolt on a carb, exh, and install. Like the MP crate engines. Quality varies as much as the pricing, but if you see anything under about $4000, it's compromising stuff somewhere. Marine engines came in normal rotation (Clockwise) or reverse rotation (Counter Clock wise). Doesnt mean much until you try to run a CCW crank in a factory car setup, and the rear main starts leaking like mad, because the little oil grooves the factory cut are now pointing the wrong way. replace the crank, and you're ok. Size wise, I've never heard of larger than 440, but I'm no boat guy..They might have. I dont like marine cores, because a lot of them use the water they are in to cool the engine..If fresh, the block may be very rusty inside, and thin where you cant have it. There's a reason they tossed it out. If it's from salt water, it's junk anyway..same reason. A friend works at a marine shop, and in many instances, they just remove and toss the old ones..dont bother rebuilding, because the castings are so corroded inside. The items to look for in your search..Do they replace all worn parts? items like valve springs, valves, guides, main and head bolts, pushrods, rockers and shafts? What does the engine come with exactly? New fuel pump? water pump? the w/p housing? a factory intake? will they install a higher performance cam if it's not in there? What type of machines do they use to do the work? Stone valve jobs should be a thing of the past. Hardened exh seats should be installed to if it's billed as a street engine. Do they blueprint the block? Degree the cam? check rocker geometry? All rebuilts have new rings, bearings, core plugs, oil pump and screen, cam, timing set, stuff like that. But new and quality are not the same. You pay for nicer parts. Most places cringe if you ask these questions, they may say "thats a race only thing" or "our equipment is similar" or "there is no difference in what we use and the good stuff". The difference is in the lifespan, and the power produced. It's as simple as that. For a high performance rebuild with a little more power than stock, and much better running, I would say $3500 will do ya. I can do them for that easy with a core engine. For things like a better intake than stock, better pistons, and decent compression, a new oil pan, dipstick, valve covers, water pump, thermostat, and carb, it will run closer to $4500. I like to say, for under 400hp, figure $9/hp. For 400-450hp $10/hp for 450-500 $12/hp. for 500-550hp $15. Cores can be from $300-900 depending on needs.
Thank You Moper for all the Tips and Info. :salut:
Bob.B
 
66dartman said:
I agree with moper, you definitly get what you pay for. My good friend has a 71 challenger r/t that was originally a 383 car and when he bought it it had a 440 in it. He has the original 383 in the garage, and the 440 in it is mild except for edelbrock heads. The car performs very well on a stock type lower end with edelbrock top end. A 440 in an e body even in mild form will perform very well.
Thank You for the feedback Dartman. :salut:
 
moper said:
The motor, even in shortblock form, isnt that good. For $1900 you can have align hone, internal balancing, better rods bolts and good pistons. Not stock replacement stuff. The place I use has a 1yr warranty on complete engines, when it's built with their parts..regardless of useage or milage. Knowledge is the key. I alway like to be heavily involved in my engines, so I'd be looking for a local shop with a good reputation, new equipment, and isnt afraid of mopars.

For my own info, I used the link. I will say this, for a mass rebuilder, they say they do some good steps. But, the parts are sub par IMO. I'm not sure if they reuse rocker shafts, they dont say. They also dont replace rod bolts, or re-seize rods..They say they "hone" them..That's making sure the big end is round..not refinishing a rod. The engine is not balanced..It's what ever it is when it's done. Badger pistons are cheap, and heavy, and dont allow for decent compression(even advertised in the case of a HP version) in any form. The timing set is a plain stock unit..not even a double, nevermind double roller. It is assembled, but not blueprinted. So, it's ok. I wouldnt spend $1600 on it, I'd spend the $1900 and get decent parts, and the job done to my expectations..Which are higher than most "industry standards" that they seem to be touting. Just my $.02. At least they use a Serdi on the heads, even if it's only 3 angle.
Thanx Moper. It just sounded too good to be true. The feedback made alot of things clear to me now. Would you know anyone that offers all the goodies you 've explained in CA? Thanx again.
Bob.B. :salut:
 
mrspeeddemon said:
What Bob B is talking about at http://www.hiperformer.com is a basic overhauled long block- not a complete engine- you will still need valve covers, intake, carb, exhaust, oil pan, timing cover, ect, ect.... So $1598 isn't that bad of a deal- its a stock rebuild- not a hot rod race motor. (and there is a $300 core charge on the 440's) So I'd say if you just want a 440 that runs and has a warranty (pretty good one too-100,000 miles /7 years!) then go for one of these places- or look for a machine shop locally- I know my shop builds engines for people all the time that don't have a core.- It just depends on what you want- you want a super wazoo tire shredder then this isn't it- you'll have to look else where! :thumblef:
Thanx for the feedback Mrspeeddemon! :salut:
 
lol..Unfortunately, I've never been to CA. I have sent stuff there, wonderrring if there was a decent place closer, but I cant help you there. I would ask around your local cruise nights. Not the staock engine cars, the street racers, and fast looking/sounding cars. Where did they go? Then, go look at t he place, and talk to the guys. If they have a clean, well lit, well equiped shop, and dont look like they just rolled out from under something, there's a good chance they can do a nice job. Your looking for valve seat cutting equipment, a block machine that uses a BHJ plate, or similar. They dont have to be CNC, but they need to be up to date. A boring bar is old school. A deck miller that is using a level to set the block is old school. A guy witha power washer outside to clean the engine block (I saw that on the Boyd's TV show..lol. that was a huge EPA violation for a business here in the East...) is just plain cheap. Questions like "how long will it take?" and Do you have usable cores here?" should be asked. Also, you should be honest with the money you have to spend. Starting a project with 1/2 the money of the estimate leads to long drawn out and painful times, assuming it gets done at all.
 
Hello Guys,
This is the new response I got from Performer:A few of the options available are the rotating assembly balance this cost 150.00, the porting and polishing of the cylinder heads for 350.00, The 500.00 stroker kit for 1400.00, big valve upgrade for 150.00 forged pistons for 400.00, comp cams, purple cams prices vary depending on the lift.
What do u all think? :salut:
 
you can order the stroker kit for $1700 or so balanced, with piston upgrades, and rings and bearings. So depending on how he's pricing, it may be a bit high. (he may have included all the numbers in case you were thinking different options..So adding them all together is misleading. The porting is a little high depoending on the work, but the balance is IMO cheap. Big valves cost the same as small ones..better valves cost more. Forged pistons run from about 30% more than a decent hyper as high as you want to go for nice stuff. That's about 60% more than a stock cast piston. Cam prices vary by design, not lift. MP cams are all the same price, depending on design too. (solid vs hyd vs roller) He's basically telling you, the better the part..the more money..That's honest.
 
moper said:
you can order the stroker kit for $1700 or so balanced, with piston upgrades, and rings and bearings. So depending on how he's pricing, it may be a bit high. (he may have included all the numbers in case you were thinking different options..So adding them all together is misleading. The porting is a little high depoending on the work, but the balance is IMO cheap. Big valves cost the same as small ones..better valves cost more. Forged pistons run from about 30% more than a decent hyper as high as you want to go for nice stuff. That's about 60% more than a stock cast piston. Cam prices vary by design, not lift. MP cams are all the same price, depending on design too. (solid vs hyd vs roller) He's basically telling you, the better the part..the more money..That's honest.
Thank You again Moper :salut:
 
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