No start after cleaning up wiring.

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swifty

swifty

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I have a 72 swinger i bought this year and there is alot of poor wiring and splices in it. I messed around with the lighting and got all lights working. The tach wiring was real birds nest so I cleaned it up and tied it into the accessory on fuse box. I have no fuel or temp. gauge so I pulled cluster. checked some connector but I think I need a new voltage limiter, will try grounding sending unit. The parts store did not have a vr or lamp sockets so I put cluster back in. Cleaned up some of the butt splices and tied up the loose wiring. Now when I try to start nothing. If I jump from battery to terminal where yellow wire goes on starter relay it fire right up with key on. If I back probe on connector from switch. I have power on red, black, and blue. When I turn key I have power on brown but nothing on yellow. If I did not mess with wiring I would think a bad ignition switch but what are the odds of it going bad right after I cleaned up wiring? Any advice on what to check next would be appreciated.
 
Did you probe both sides of the switch connector? If you don't have power on the yellow, on the switch connector, it's the switch, if you have it on the harness side, it's right in the connector.
 
I did probe both sides of connector. When I first looked at connector it was not seated all the way so I figured I found the problem but still no start. I wonder by moving wires around if I broke the yellow wire. I will test it again when I get a chance. I just seems like a real coincidence that the switch went out while I was working under dash.
 
Can anyone recommend where to get a instrument vr. Are the ones Rock auto sells any good? Are the ones parts stores sell solid state?
 
I would order one from RTE industries. Expensive but solid state.
 
I ordered a limiter from rte. I did some more checking into the switch and when I unplug the harness and check between the red wire and the yellow I have an open even when I turn the key, so I guess I have a bad switch. Are all switches the same or are some better than others?

I also went through some more wiring and got the temp gauge working. I tried grounding the fuel gauge wire at sending unit and the gauge stayed on empty, so I will have to do some more looking.
 
Treat the gauges as an end to end system. Supply to panel, through questionable pins on harness connector. Since one gauge works, you can probably eliminate that and now the limiter. Suspect bad connections at the gauge studs (nuts) and check at the kick panel connector where the harness goes to the rear. It could always be the gauge itself.
 
I just received the rte voltage limiter. Really fast shipping. I was wondering do you still use the capacitor that is part of the cluster? If you do, does this need to be tested and how?
 
Check your starter relay, and your neutral safety switch.

Starter relay is little square box that should be near your battery and links up with the starter solenoid.

Mine was going, and I had a few "turn key....nothing" moments and I changed the starter relay. A simple fix for an aggravating problem!

The Neutral Safety Switch is also a big one. Check it out, it connects to the auto trans from the side (lift needed)
 
1970Dart198 said:
Check your starter relay, and your neutral safety switch.

Starter relay is little square box that should be near your battery and links up with the starter solenoid.

Mine was going, and I had a few "turn key....nothing" moments and I changed the starter relay. A simple fix for an aggravating problem!

The Neutral Safety Switch is also a big one. Check it out, it connects to the auto trans from the side (lift needed)
Click to expand...

I know the relay and neutral switch is good because when I jump it i jump the yellow wire tab on the relay to the battery. so the neutral switch and relay are still active.
 
swifty said:
I just received the rte voltage limiter. Really fast shipping. I was wondering do you still use the capacitor that is part of the cluster? If you do, does this need to be tested and how?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I would. That cap is OLD and they can short. If it does it's not fuse protected.
 
Sorry I meant to say--it's for radio noise suppression. It's likely not needed for the new solid state limiter. The old limiter worked just like a flasher --pulsing the power on /off and generated spikes which would have made "ticks" in the AM radio
 
67Dart273 said:
Sorry I meant to say--it's for radio noise suppression. It's likely not needed for the new solid state limiter. The old limiter worked just like a flasher --pulsing the power on /off and generated spikes which would have made "ticks" in the AM radio
Click to expand...

Thanks, I thought it was for the radio but not sure. I have the new limiter, new cluster sockets, lamps and a new headlight switch so hoping to get the instrument cluster working. I will try grounding the sending unit lead right at gauge to see if gauge is good. I will also clean up all gauge connections. If i find the gauge is bad is there something I can do to it or replacement the only option?
 
I worked on the cluster this weekend. Replaced limiter, broken sockets and lamps cleaned up all connection. Gauges are now working. Most of the instrument lamps are working and now have power to instrument fuse since I replaced headlight switch. Dome light does not work but I did not have a new bulb or test light so I will also need to check out later. I know the door pins are working cause the buzzer works. Need to get map light,trunk light working. Also did not check backup and license plate yet but I'm sure they will need some attention. Pretty happy gauges are working. when I started I only had headlights. Need to order a new ignition switch. I might wire in a push button till I get to putting one in.
 
You are the umpteenth kid who wants to "wire in a push button." In the length of time, trouble, and cost that it takes to wire up a scabbed in PB you could troubleshoot and find out what is the real cause

You have a shop manual? Download one here for free

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970088617

Somewhat usable but not always complete manuals here at MyMopar:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

The start signal comes from the key (yellow) runs through the bulkhead to either of the push-on terminals of the start relay.

So make sure you have voltage there in "start." If not, go to the switch connector under the column and check on both sides of the switch connector. If you do have it there, but not under the hook, it's trouble in the bulkhead connector

There is however a MISPRINT in the 72 shop manual.

The wire to the starter relay seems to come from "T" of the bulkhead, "dark green" but is probably YELLOW and go to one terminal of the relay. You should be able to SEE that wire, so if the manual is wrong you can quickly sort it out. I believe "L" is the horns

The second "push on" terminal of the start relay goes to either the clutch safety switch or the neutral safety switch depending, and is grounded when in park or neutral, or with the clutch depressed.

Those two "push on" terminals of the relay are the COIL of the relay.
 
I have the schematic,the misprint had me scratching my head for a while at first, and I already checked the switch post #3 and #6. If I turn key on and jump from battery to yellow wire tab on relay it fires right up. I can jump from red to yellow on harness under column and it cranks. So I suspect something on switch or up in column. The push button is just till I get a chance to replace switch or tear apart column. I have the car in some one elses garage so it needs to be moved from time to time.

Thank you for all the help 67dart273, I have received alot of great info. from you. Thanks also for the kid reference, I have not heard that in 20 years!
 
Sounds to me like it just about has to be the ignition switch.

Too bad it's not an old Datsun, LOL you could crank start it

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upF7M_xvar0"]How to Start a 1965 Datsun Truck - YouTube[/ame]
 
Not sure about 1972, but if your ign switch is in the dash and not the steering column (later cars w/ wheel lock), it is easy to replace and cost ~$11 (rockauto). Before that, pull the plug and apply 12 V direct to the yellow wire terminal. If it fires the starter, it isn't the switch. Some people (me) wire a hidden switch in-line w/ the yellow wire so that prison-schooled miscreants can't hot-wire my car. Maybe a prior owner did that. I also like to wire in an alarm that sounds in the house so I can go ask them what they are doing in my car, as they fumble around.
 
BillGrissom said:
Not sure about 1972, but if your ign switch is in the dash and not the steering column (later cars w/ wheel lock), it is easy to replace and cost ~$11 (rockauto). Before that, pull the plug and apply 12 V direct to the yellow wire terminal. If it fires the starter, it isn't the switch. Some people (me) wire a hidden switch in-line w/ the yellow wire so that prison-schooled miscreants can't hot-wire my car. Maybe a prior owner did that. I also like to wire in an alarm that sounds in the house so I can go ask them what they are doing in my car, as they fumble around.
Click to expand...

The switch in going to be in the column. I had the opposite of this problem a little bit ago.

Take the yellow wire off of the starter relay. Hook your test light/Voltmeter to the connector on the yellow wire. Turn the key to "Run" not "On" but "Run" like you are trying to start the car.

If you receive no signal/Voltage here, it will not kick the starter over with the key.

The switch is fairly simple to replace also:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=128836
 
Been pretty busy but finally picked up a new ignition switch. Plugged it into the harness and everything worked like it was supposed to. Started taking column apart to install and found a broken off bolt in one of the puller holes for steering wheel. It is sticking out enough to get a hold of, but is too chewed up to put a double nut on. I sprayed it with kroil and will have to find a stud removal tool. I will have to make up a puller because the one I have the holes are to far apart.
 
Had some time to work on car last weekend. Had a bit of a time getting the broken off bolt out of steering wheel wheel puller hole. I could not get it with vice grip and a stud removal tool was too big to fit in space. I finally drove a deep well socket that was a little smaller than bolt onto it and tuned it off with breaker bar. Worked pretty well and did not even damage socket.

I installed switch, thanks abodyjoe. Now car is back to starting with key. I am not sure why but the orange wire for the gear select indicator went to a black wire which ran to switch. I do not have column shift but i do have a tach mounted on column so i cut the black wire and used it to power light for tach. I also drill a small hole in column and ran tach wire down inside column really cleaned it up nice. I finally have my own camera so I will post some pics when I get a chance. Thanks everyone for the help and info.
 
I didn't look up the diagram, but the orange you think is gear selector might have to do with the time delay and "key in" light. If you want to chase that down, I'll look it up
 
67Dart273 said:
I didn't look up the diagram, but the orange you think is gear selector might have to do with the time delay and "key in" light. If you want to chase that down, I'll look it up
Click to expand...

It is an instrument lamp wire because it dims with headlight switch. It was not hooked so it worked really well for tach on the column. I just don't know why on the new switch it went to a black wire and went right to switch, and on old switch it went to orange wire that was not hooked up.
 
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