Oil viscosity

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Billbo

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Hi everyone. Just looking for any high tech info. I scored a free box (3 bottles) of Nulon oil 25w60 street and track. Premium Mineral 25W-60 Street and Track Engine Oil. This stuff has the most zinc additive I have seen in engine oil. 2300 ppm! All sounds good for flat tappet cam shafts. But, the thick viscosity concerns me. Will this put uneccesary strain on the distributor drive shaft since this oil is quite thick. Does anyone use such high viscosity oil on their small block? Or shall not use it at all.
Regards
Billy D.
 
Billbo said:
Hi everyone. Just looking for any high tech info. I scored a free box (3 bottles) of Nulon oil 25w60 street and track. Premium Mineral 25W-60 Street and Track Engine Oil. This stuff has the most zinc additive I have seen in engine oil. 2300 ppm! All sounds good for flat tappet cam shafts. But, the thick viscosity concerns me. Will this put uneccesary strain on the distributor drive shaft since this oil is quite thick. Does anyone use such high viscosity oil on their small block? Or shall not use it at all.
Regards
Billy D.
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It won't break anything.
 
Billbo said:
This stuff has the most zinc additive I have seen in engine oil. 2300 ppm! All sounds good for flat tappet cam shafts. But, the thick viscosity concerns me. Will this put uneccesary strain on the distributor drive shaft since this oil is quite thick. Does anyone use such high viscosity oil on their small block? Or shall not use it at all.
Regards
Billy D.
Click to expand...

If you really want to use it, then I would cut with something else for two reasons.
2300 ppm is well into the range of bad effects from too concentrated zddp. Somewhere's north of 1400 or 1600 one can expect it to have negative effects. I post up some reference citations later tonight - and then you can decide.*

The other reason is that it is way too viscous unless your running a situation where the oil gets really hot - like a Silver State or road racing. If its too thick, there will be plenty of pressure at the pump, but too much will get dumped out the relief valve. In other words, the volumetric flow through the engine and up to the top may be worse.

Here's a viscosity calculator for mixing any two oils.
Mixing viscosities | Widman International
The viscosity of pretty much any oil can be found on the manufacture's website. Some are easier to find than others, but they all have it. It will be given at 40 C and 100 C. That's the standard. So to know how it will work out at colder and warmer temps, do both. Then punch it into the graphing calculator and you can see how it stacks up against a typical or specific 10W-30 or 10W-40; or any motor oil you want.
Graph your oils | Widman International
To focus on operating temps, enter a higher minimum temperature.

*edit: 800 ppm will protect very high pressures on the lobes. But of course a little higher will not hurt and could help because there's always factors of uncertainty. Overtime some of the zddp will be burned. The more there is the more will turn to ash. Thats not good. (ref Widman's Oil for Corvairs pdf). SAE papers reported that over 2000 ppm, the ZDDP will attack the grain structure of the steel. That's mentioned in a few places including this circa 2007 rebuttal to Zinc Myth. So I'll stick by my 1400-1600 as max desirable even in a racing engine with high spring pressures.
 
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First of all, why are you running a mineral oil? That company makes a full synthetic. No way would I run a mineral oil. It's 2018 and it makes no sense.

Second, did you call the oil manufacturer and ask them what they want you to run? It's their products. They should know what you need and the correct oil to do it.

Third, what are your clearances? That makes a big difference is the viscosity you need.

Fourth, what fuel? If you are runny alcohol then you need to run a Group III synthetic (which isn't really a true synthetic) or a blend.

Fifth, what is the climate like? A 25 winter grade is only good down to about 35* F. If it gets colder than that, you may want to think about a thinner winter grade.
 
Your low end weight number is measured at 100 degrees F. As above, if it gets cold it is gonna start acting kinda like molasses. The flow rate in the engine is gonna slow to a crawl.
 
nm9stheham said:
Your low end weight number is measured at 100 degrees F. As above, if it gets cold it is gonna start acting kinda like molasses. The flow rate in the engine is gonna slow to a crawl.
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True, but to see the actual viscosity of the winter grade you look at the CCS viscosity, cP@ at what temperature. Most 0 grades are tested at -35, 5 tests at -30, 10 tests at -25 and 20 tests at -10. All are Celsius.

You can also look at the numbers even at 104* F (which is 40 C but I hate using Celsius) and you will see a notice a significant change in pumping ability.
 
Then you've never seen Lucas oil. It has 2400 PPM zinc.
 
I presently run a 20W-60 in my '72 Bbody Satellite 318 automatic. In fact, here in La Paz you can find and purchase GTX 20W-60 high mileage blend right on the shelf of the local Autozone store. In the USA I could only find it on Ebay. Local weather records here have never recorded a freezing temperature.

GTX.jpg


DSC01151.JPG
 
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Local climate does effect choices. Start up temperatures more than operating temperatures. Operating temperature is more a combination of air temperature, engine specifics and load.

I too prefer Farenheight, but you guys in Mexico and Australia probably are just the opposite on that. :LOL: That's why I didn't convert to F.

Anyway, maybe it will be helpful.
Lets say the engine is designed to operate on 10W-30 or 10W-40, and expected OIL Temperatures are around 212 F/100 C. From that we can figure that 15 to 20 cSt is the range of operating viscosity (marked in gray). Higher end for warmer conditions, looser engines, and lower end for the opposite.
If the engine is being used in way that increases oil temps 20 C (36 F) degrees, then we can choose a higher weight oil and get the same operating viscosity.
M1 is Mobile 1, T was Rotella, VR1 is Valvoline. SAE is typical

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I ran a Stewart Warner oil temperature gas in the bottom of the oil pan in a new (stock) 1971 383 Road Runner. The oil when warmed up ran hotter than 212 degrees, more like 240 degrees if I remember correctly.
 
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Billbo said:
Hi everyone. Just looking for any high tech info. I scored a free box (3 bottles) of Nulon oil 25w60 street and track. Premium Mineral 25W-60 Street and Track Engine Oil. This stuff has the most zinc additive I have seen in engine oil. 2300 ppm! All sounds good for flat tappet cam shafts. But, the thick viscosity concerns me. Will this put uneccesary strain on the distributor drive shaft since this oil is quite thick. Does anyone use such high viscosity oil on their small block? Or shall not use it at all.
Regards
Billy D.
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Mineral oil? That's what Johnsons Baby Oil is. Why would you want to put that in your engine? Who cares that it has 2300 ppm. of zinc. Use some quality oil with zddp like Brad Penn or some regular dino oil and a additive like Rislone to get the zddp you need. Here's a link:https://rislone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/4405-Tech-Sheet.pdf
 
dibbons said:
I ran an Stewart Warner oil temperature gas in the bottom of the oil pan in a new (stock) 1971 383 Road Runner. The oil when warmed up ran hotter than 212 degrees, more like 240 degrees if I remember correctly.
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Good info to know. That's generally considered pretty hot for an oil - at least up here. I monitor the same way. Oil pan sump is the easiest location. My .060 over 340 ran up around 280 F on long highway runs at 70 mph. In part that was due to the external oil lines close to the exhaust. After removing those, it would run closer to 260 F. Still very hot; requiring more frequent oil changes and oil with good shear. It was fine at the drag strip or on local roads, more like 220 F. So I just never used it on a road course.

My current 340 runs cold. This weekend on the way to the dragstrip, it was 140-160 F on the local roads, 160 - 180 F on the interstate. Air temps were 40 F going to 50 F. Drag strip pass, or an autocross run will raise the temperature somewhere around 200 F.

Even on NJMP's road course this engine's oil wasn't over 220 F, although these were not even close to maximum effort laps. Going there, I did not know what to expect so brought two quarts of heavier grade oil in case the temperatures went higher.
 
Thanks for all your responses. I was concerned about the stress that will cause on the dizzy drive shft churning this oil. And also the wear on the bush in the block. But mixing it down nay not be a bad idea. Just need the right oil to do so.
Regard.
Billy D.
 
Billbo said:
Thanks for all your responses. I was concerned about the stress that will cause on the dizzy drive shft churning this oil. And also the wear on the bush in the block. But mixing it down nay not be a bad idea. Just need the right oil to do so.
Regard.
Billy D.
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I beleive the stress will be on the intermediate shaft. MP used to sell a hardened version. The distributor shaft slips into the slot on top.
 
Mattax said:
I beleive the stress will be on the intermediate shaft. MP used to sell a hardened version. The distributor shaft slips into the slot on top.
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Just my main concern was the gears between cam and intermediate shaft and the bush in the block to be prematurely wearing with a higher viscosity oil. Or am I just chasing a ghost?
Regards
Billy D...
 
Chasing a ghost. Free oil will do you no good if it's the wrong stuff. Makes you wonder why it is free. It must have been wrong for the last guy too.
 
Zinc is not the only part of the oil that protects the engine parts. Super high amounts of zinc Aren’t necessarily a detrimental point of the oil. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I have ever read such a thing. It seems outlandish. But I guess anything is possible. And oil scientist, check iamb not. But I have read a lot of articles from various oil companies on the subject. They are using Contacts has never shown to be detrimental to an engine from what I have read.

Personally, IMO, I’d keep a quart or two in the trunk for that, “Just Incase” moment on the road.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Zinc is not the only part of the oil that protects the engine parts. Super high amounts of zinc Aren’t necessarily a detrimental point of the oil. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I have ever read such a thing. It seems outlandish. But I guess anything is possible. And oil scientist, check iamb not. But I have read a lot of articles from various oil companies on the subject. They are using Contacts has never shown to be detrimental to an engine from what I have read.

Personally, IMO, I’d keep a quart or two in the trunk for that, “Just Incase” moment on the road.
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The biggest issue with more zinc is it eats HP. It won't ever hurt the engine to have a lot of zinc in it but you will give up some power.

Valvoline VR-1 is a great example. I haven't tested it since the early 2000's but at that time it was one of the biggest HP eaters out there. But you didn't have to worry about losing a cam.
 
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