Oil Warning

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2shelbys

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This subject is old news but the extent to which it has been applied isn't. As most of you probably know the new standards for oil call for a substantial reduction in the level of zinc (ZDDP) in oils because the zinc causes deterioration of cat's. For those of us with cars that have flat tappet cams this a major problem. Zinc is absolutely vital in preventing premature cam failure and other wear issues, expecially in HP and race engines.

What many of you may not know, judging by how many guys I run into who do not know, is that there are very few oils left that have a sufficient zinc concentration to properly protect our engines. Most of the major manufacturers have reduced the ZDDP in all of their oils including synthetics to levels WAY too low. Mobil introduced the new Mobil 1 15W-50 to address this issue but pretty much none of their other oils are much good to us any more. Contact the manufacturer of your favorite oil and ask them what the ZDDP concentration is in the oil you are using. If it is less than 1200ppm, or if they will not tell you what it is, stop using it NOW. The 1200ppm figure seems to be the concentration agreed on by most of the major cam manufacturers as a good minimum. You can contact them to see what they say about this.

There are some alternatives out there. Amsoil is a great one. All of their synthetics have a ZDDP concentration in the high 1300's. Royal Purple has a good product too. Right now you can use diesel oils like Rotella, Delvac, and Delo but with diesels starting to use cat's the ZDDP will disappear from them too soon and you will not know when it does. There are also cam break-in and ZDDP additives like that from Hughes engines and others but a lot of people are uncomfortable with additives because of possible inconsistancy and foaming. I have no experience with them so I don't know how valid either concern is. The bottom line is that you may not be able to rely on your old favorite any more. Check it out to be sure. 1200ppm minimum, 1300-1400 is best.
 
still have enough zinc to help?
Dave, I don't know. They are not one of the companies I contacted and I haven't seen anything about their stuff. Contact them and ask them what the ZDDP concentration is.
 
still have enough zinc to help?

I don't think STP has the zinc any more. They've taken the warning about zinc off of the bottles. I don't know if it's enough zinc or not, but I've been stockpiling some bottles of the "house brands" of oil additives when I find them that still have the zinc warning. Last time I checked, the local ALCO still had it & so did the Dollar General where I live. I don't really like using this type of stuff, but if it can save a flat tappet cam, it would be cheap insurance. Plus, I have a really loose engine in my current daily driver & this stuff helps to keep it from sounding so much like a diesel. :D


My next Mopar build is going to have a roller cam. Hopefully, this will make the zinc a non-issue. [-o<


:burnout:
 
I see no mention on the newer bottles. Probably is a good idea to stock up on some of the ther additives.

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm


What about race oil like Valvoline 20-50 for 50 or 60 wt products? They are stil ok too!

"The safest bet right now seems to be either the use of Redline (synthetic) or Valvoline VR1." I verified this, it is listed on the bottle still.

well how much and is it reduced? :hockey:
 
I don't think STP has the zinc any more. They've taken the warning about zinc off of the bottles. I don't know if it's enough zinc or not, but I've been stockpiling some bottles of the "house brands" of oil additives when I find them that still have the zinc warning. Last time I checked, the local ALCO still had it & so did the Dollar General where I live. I don't really like using this type of stuff, but if it can save a flat tappet cam, it would be cheap insurance. Plus, I have a really loose engine in my current daily driver & this stuff helps to keep it from sounding so much like a diesel. :D


My next Mopar build is going to have a roller cam. Hopefully, this will make the zinc a non-issue. [-o<


:burnout:

of a sort, you will have some wear on clevite bearings and other areas. Just add race oil. Heck all oil is so much money and engines are even more, so anyway, I think the last VR1 I purchased was $4 a qt. Stil lless than mobil 1 i think?


But I hear ya, kinda sucks.. good topic guys


thanks all and 2shelbys! :wav:
 
call me stupid but why are only "old car" cams worrying about this? all cars have cams last i knew. are the "new cars" using a different steel for their cams? or is this more of a high lift high load issue?
 
call me stupid but why are only "old car" cams worrying about this? all cars have cams last i knew. are the "new cars" using a different steel for their cams? or is this more of a high lift high load issue?

That's a good question, most of todays engines using pushrods come from the factory with roller lifters. The flat tappet muscle motors also have some pretty beefy valve springs in them which only adds to the friction forces where the flat tappet meets the cam lobe hence the requirement for friction fighters like zinc. I don't believe that overhead cam engines have as strong a valve springs and I doubt they use dual springs. As shelby says this wasn't a problem until 2-3 yrs. ago the government got involved to reduce the zinc in oils because they believe (this is a contentious point) that the zinc harms the catylist in the catalitic converter.

Terry
 
call me stupid but why are only "old car" cams worrying about this? all cars have cams last i knew. are the "new cars" using a different steel for their cams? or is this more of a high lift high load issue?
Pretty much all new cars have roller cams and spring rates about 1/3 of what some HP V8 engines have. That is the difference. The load is not focused on a pinpoint area like it is with a flat tappet or slider cam.
 
"The safest bet right now seems to be either the use of Redline (synthetic) or Valvoline VR1." I verified this, it is listed on the bottle still.

well how much and is it reduced? :hockey:

Most oils still contain some ZDDP. Just being on the label is no indication that it is a good oil to use. What you need to know is the concentration. It needs to be no less than 1200ppm and 1300-1400 is best. The only oils that I know for sure are OK are Royal Purple and any of Amsoil's synthetics. Redline was OK as of late 2005 but I have not seen any new info. It is probably still OK. Valvoline VR1 is good too.

How much it has been reduced probably varies widely from one to another with some containing none at all. Just make sure the oil you use has at least the minimum.
 
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