gtxdude
Well-Known Member
Going to finish dropping my steering box out today. Any preference for Firmfeel of Steer & Gear? Need to get it sent off and back in time for cruising season
P.S. box rebuild FirmFeel or Steer & Gear?
- Thread starter gtxdude
- Start date
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OR........
Ignore both of them and use a Borgeson from BERGMAN Auto Craft.
This isn't a shill....I have no stake in your decision.
My experience is that every Mopar steering box is saddled with a design flaw that is impossible to eliminate entirely. That is the dead spot in the middle of the travel. From these points:
From straight ahead to the 11:00 position and to the 1:00 position, the stock steering boxes all have some manner of play. Even rebuilds will have some, they only get worse as the unit wears. THIS was how my 15,000 mile Firm Feel Stage 3 was. It didn't leak or make noise but it had that sloppy feel in this range where the steering wheel turned with almost no resistance and the tires did not turn. Once I was past this range, the steering effort was firm and good. The problem was, any driving on curvy roads meant any turn that went from left to right included that change in feel where the wheel input gave nothing. It wasn't good.
Given the cost of the Firm Feel rebuilds, it doesn't make sense to spend the money for something that is only going to degrade immediately from the moment you install it.
If you have a cruiser car with no emphasis on improved handling and road feel, the stock steering box is fine.
If you are used to the feel of a later model car, the Borgeson will give you steering feel that closer matches what you've grown used to dealing with.
Ignore both of them and use a Borgeson from BERGMAN Auto Craft.
This isn't a shill....I have no stake in your decision.
My experience is that every Mopar steering box is saddled with a design flaw that is impossible to eliminate entirely. That is the dead spot in the middle of the travel. From these points:
From straight ahead to the 11:00 position and to the 1:00 position, the stock steering boxes all have some manner of play. Even rebuilds will have some, they only get worse as the unit wears. THIS was how my 15,000 mile Firm Feel Stage 3 was. It didn't leak or make noise but it had that sloppy feel in this range where the steering wheel turned with almost no resistance and the tires did not turn. Once I was past this range, the steering effort was firm and good. The problem was, any driving on curvy roads meant any turn that went from left to right included that change in feel where the wheel input gave nothing. It wasn't good.
Given the cost of the Firm Feel rebuilds, it doesn't make sense to spend the money for something that is only going to degrade immediately from the moment you install it.
If you have a cruiser car with no emphasis on improved handling and road feel, the stock steering box is fine.
If you are used to the feel of a later model car, the Borgeson will give you steering feel that closer matches what you've grown used to dealing with.
gtxdude
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input, hadn't thought about that 
I heard someone post that the Firm Feel rebuild was $600. Shipping your core to them could be another $100.
That is less than a Borgeson but not by much.
This really is a matter of “spend a little more and you’ll not regret it”.
That is less than a Borgeson but not by much.
This really is a matter of “spend a little more and you’ll not regret it”.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Is the Borgeson unit a different design all together? How does it eliminate the dead spot in the middle? Or is it just because the internals are brand new? Do they make a manual box as tight as the power steer unit?
The Borgeson units are a new design.
Keep in mind, when the Mopar power steering was first designed and released in the Late 50s, super easy steering was a huge selling point. Their design was aimed to capitalize on that. Cars didn’t have to handle well. Tires were tall and squishy, springs and shocks were soft for a comfortable ride and most guys that wanted handling drove smaller cars with manual steering systems.
In the late 70s, there was some emphasis on improving handling and steering in all American cars. Ma Mopar did integrate their own “Firm Feel” changes to the steering boxes in police and HD applications. The company known as Firm Feel took it further. They do make great products but they are limited in what they can do with these steering boxes.
Keep in mind, when the Mopar power steering was first designed and released in the Late 50s, super easy steering was a huge selling point. Their design was aimed to capitalize on that. Cars didn’t have to handle well. Tires were tall and squishy, springs and shocks were soft for a comfortable ride and most guys that wanted handling drove smaller cars with manual steering systems.
In the late 70s, there was some emphasis on improving handling and steering in all American cars. Ma Mopar did integrate their own “Firm Feel” changes to the steering boxes in police and HD applications. The company known as Firm Feel took it further. They do make great products but they are limited in what they can do with these steering boxes.
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AMC Diplomat
Well-Known Member
Lot of Firm Feel hate 
They're the only place that makes a lot of new FMJ suspension components. So I'm biased and I think they're good people.
They're the only place that makes a lot of new FMJ suspension components. So I'm biased and I think they're good people.
I don't "hate" them. They do what they can for the factory design. They are limited by the design constraints of the unit.
Think of it this way....If you take a 1950s straight six and did every trick you could think of, (porting the head, extrude hone the intake and exhaust manifold, add EFI, electronic ignition, etc) The six will still be slower than a 5.7 Hemi because of the improvements of the modern design.
Think of it this way....If you take a 1950s straight six and did every trick you could think of, (porting the head, extrude hone the intake and exhaust manifold, add EFI, electronic ignition, etc) The six will still be slower than a 5.7 Hemi because of the improvements of the modern design.
shep76
Well-Known Member
firmfeel is $500 before shipping. I'm going to give them a shot. I tend to like to stay stock with things. I went back and forth with my truck on keeping the straight axle or going IFS and decided on straight axle.... so I think that is just kind of the direction I go with things. Seems like most people are pretty happy with the borgeson. I read some people having issues with noise but perhaps that was an isolated thing. I don't recall why I chose firmfeel over stear and gear. It does seem like the lead time is shorter with stear and gear so if you want faster turn around that may be a factor. It sounds like if you really want a more modern feel you likely won't be happy with keeping the stock unit. So maybe that is how you make the decision...
Make sure you confirm that they will ship immediately.
There have been reports online of people ordering parts back as late as September of last year and they are still waiting.
If you can wait AND if they don't charge you UNTIL they ship, it may work out for you.
I don't dispute their quality. They make great products. I don't like delays though and I especially hate lies, deception and excuses.
There have been reports online of people ordering parts back as late as September of last year and they are still waiting.
If you can wait AND if they don't charge you UNTIL they ship, it may work out for you.
I don't dispute their quality. They make great products. I don't like delays though and I especially hate lies, deception and excuses.
shep76
Well-Known Member
That sucks. I hope that is not the case. They said 8-9 weeks. I still need to rebuild my front end so 8-9 weeks is ok. I wouldn't be ok with 6 months though...
shep76
Well-Known Member
Well, they waited too long and I had too much time to think about it... I ended up cancelling my order. I'm going to go with the Borgeson.
I love to patronize small businesses.
It sounds touchy-feely but I feel better knowing that my money is helping a small business owner succeed.
Sometimes though, they let you down because they don't have the manpower to meet the demands.
It sounds touchy-feely but I feel better knowing that my money is helping a small business owner succeed.
Sometimes though, they let you down because they don't have the manpower to meet the demands.
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