Passon Od Vs Keisler Tko

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fcm42000

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I was prepared to buy a keisler auto for my 70 440 cuda and a 5 speed for my 69 dart 360, but I have not bought anything yet, here is why. I have debated long and hard about this and i have used this forum and others to do some research, this is what i have concluded. In my OPINION keisler knows people use these forums to make there decision, so maybe they make up profiles and post bad things about passon or classic motor group. somebody from keisler told me classic motor group was going out of business, that is why they have good prices, classic motor sports said that was not true and laughed. I have heard nothing but good things about jamie passon and have spoke with him, he was very eager to help me solve my problems. So these random posts from people who came out of no where saying that passons transmission pops out of gear and they need help fixing it are probably false. I believe that passon would have tried to fix the problem and it would not have been something that needed to be resolved on forabodiesonly. I also dont understand why keisler bashes the oe 833 od gear ratios when they are almost identical to there autos.does this make sense to anyone? I was prepared to dump around 9 thoasand dollars in keisler products, but I dont think i can do it now. I just THINK something unethical is going on. I DONT KNOW that keisler made up posts, it just doesnt sound right that someones first post is about a passon od and not about some other random problem that it took to get to the point where they considered an od. Has anyone noticed anything like this?
 
I have heard nothing but good things about jamie passon and have spoke with him, he was very eager to help me solve my problems. So these random posts from people who came out of no where saying that passons transmission pops out of gear and they need help fixing it are probably false. I believe that passon would have tried to fix the problem and it would not have been something that needed to be resolved on forabodiesonly.

Like this post!!! Still hasn't replied back on his disatisfaction????

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=65494
 
I have hered Keseler is a little on the cut throught side.


So now I need to ask you fcm42000. Do you work for Passon?

Just checking. LOL
 
In my experience the Passon kid has a bad attitude.
That alone, IMO, would make me steer clear of dealing with them.

When a business says they are looking for cores that you have, and they have a core you can use, you don't get all cocky and snide, pulling an attitude trip, when trying to buy the cores you need.
You just say "No we need this core to rebuild for our own".

I can handle "no", but not a holier than thou attitude.

Now Brewer's gets any extra older core 4 speed stuff I have, when I have it.

As far as an after market manual transmission, KEISLER would be my choice, because there are no other sensible choices offered.

Mark.
 
I bought a rebuilt A-833 from Jamie. I thought he was very helpful. He didn't appear to get overly excited but wasn't rude.

I would buy from him again no problem.

He was at Carlisle last year. Maybe you could meet him in person and make your decions then.

Best of Luck.
 
I`ve had first hand personal experience with Keisler, years ago with the hydraulic clutch conversion they offered. Absolutley nothing worked as they claimed. Then try to get the problem resolved?? sheeeeit, good luck:angry7: I dealt with the owner then transferred to each smartass clown that worked in their office. I had to eat shipping back to them, and $60.00 of long distance phone bills. I would`nt touch em with a 10' pole with a 20' extension. And thats putting it kindly:angry7:
 
i met shafi keisler in 2005 on hot rod power tour. he seemed pretty cool,of course i haven't bought anything from him either. i talked to one of his boys at the bristol,tn power tour stop and he seemed a little cocky for me. he priced me a 5 spd. for a torino i am building that didn't seem bad though. i have the advantage that they are about a half hour from me,so i canrole in and raise hell if i have a problem and get jerked around! i am pretty sure that the classic chevy 5 spd. place sells them for mopars as well. worth looking into.
 
There was a thread on another forum about 2-1/2 years ago or so where someone had a problem with a Keisler tranny. The board owner nailed them posting and writing testimonials for their stuff to offset the bad publicity they were getting. They would register as a new member and post praising Keisler, but the IP address was the same as Keisler's. Personally I wouldn't deal with someone who tried something so underhanded to avoid having to repair / replace a product that had an obvious problem. Eventually they did agree to repair the tranny, but only after tremendous bad publicity on that board because of their business practices.
 
There was a thread on another forum about 2-1/2 years ago or so where someone had a problem with a Keisler tranny. The board owner nailed them posting and writing testimonials for their stuff to offset the bad publicity they were getting. They would register as a new member and post praising Keisler, but the IP address was the same as Keisler's. Personally I wouldn't deal with someone who tried something so underhanded to avoid having to repair / replace a product that had an obvious problem. Eventually they did agree to repair the tranny, but only after tremendous bad publicity on that board because of their business practices.

Wow. Actions speak louder than words. If they were upright they would have automatically fixed the problem and taken the hit. I have been in business for myself as a small engine repair shop.Was for 3 years. If any of my customers had a problem with my work I fixed it free.I ended up getting a regular job to pay the bills of the repair business!! Small engine stuff dont pay as theres to much cheap disposable crap and people would rather get that than fix the old one. My Dad used to do boat repairs on the side and did the same thing. He said you have to take one in the nose once in a while because your reputation is everything!
 
i met shafi keisler in 2005 on hot rod power tour. he seemed pretty cool,of course i haven't bought anything from him either. i talked to one of his boys at the bristol,tn power tour stop and he seemed a little cocky for me. he priced me a 5 spd. for a torino i am building that didn't seem bad though. i have the advantage that they are about a half hour from me,so i canrole in and raise hell if i have a problem and get jerked around! i am pretty sure that the classic chevy 5 spd. place sells them for mopars as well. worth looking into.
Yeah, Shafi imo Shaftye, actually called me when I called them inquireing where my hydro TO system was. Upon ordering they said 1 week,I went ahead and pulled tranny in anticipation. when he called it was 1 month and had arrived that day. He was apoligetic and I complemented him on the look of quality of his product. But when it was resolution time he`ll transferr you to his boys and they`ll give you a highly rehearsed runaround.
 
After talking to Jamie Passon on the phone, I decided to buy my 4 sapeed parts and components from Brewer's. In my opinion, Mr. Passon needs some personal skills courses.
 
In my personal experience with Jamie Passon, I have been impressed over and over again. He helped me identify an entire crate full of 18 spline 4-speed gears ON HIS DIME, and he even correctly identified several gearsets of Liberty product even though I told him straight up that if they were Liberty Gears, I'd fill out any missing pieces by buying from Liberty. He has earned a lifetime customer in me just for that alone. He also built a 4-speed for a customer of a friend of mine, and the transmission had trouble getting into a gear. (synchro issue) He made good on the entire tranny and the customer was very happy. Fortunately he was able to just send the stuff, and a swap out was made here... and it was put to bed without shipping entire transmissions. Great service. His a credit to the hobby.
His products and work are equally impressive. I soon will be getting an imput shaft and he is going to finish some gear cones on a slickshift gearset I have so I can use the gears in a fully synchronized 4-speed. He knows his stuff, and he doesn't keep the knowledge to himself, he is more than happy to share with anyone who inquires.
I have no experience with Keisler, but I have a problem with the actual product. First they aren't all that heavy duty. I had a friend who intended to put one in his Hemi Demon. He eventually went to Jerico and bought a 4-speed. Secondly, I am not a big fan of overdrives. If I wanted to cruise the highways, I'd get a friendlier rear gear, and pocket the money. Third, I am not a big fan of internal rail shifting. Sure it is nice in a modern car, and I have them in two of my vehicles... but when I get into an old muscle car I want to be able to pull gears without finesse. Sure you can pull gears pretty quick once you get the hang of the modern units, but you can't shift the same as you can with an old Hurst piece. I prefer the latter.
 
I've only dealt with Jamie Passon a few years ago. He was very friendly and helpful. Spent alot of time on the phone with me answering all my questions. I ordered a bunch of parts on my Mastercard and received them very quickly. Never had any problems or complaints.

A couple years ago a hydraulic TO from Keisler was on my wish list as I was having problems with the factory set-up in my Demon. However, I wanted to get the factory system working BEFORE I ordered the Keisler kit. Well I gave up on the factory system and went to order from Keisler. It was "temporary unavailable". Cost was $499. 6 months later it was still unavailable and the price went up to $550. Another year or so goes by and it's still unavailable. I end up ordering a new Z-bar and linkages for the factory set-up. It finally works and I can drive the car. A month later the Keisler kit is now available. As much as I still want the Keisler "Clutch Actuator Kit", it now costs $649.95. Maybe some other time.


Wylde.
 
Sorry this is long winded but I always get a little heated up with this topic.

I've had a Keisler setup sitting in my garage for 7 years and it will probably never make it into my car. My biggest complaint with Shafi and Mark is they will BS you to sell stuff they don't actually have in stock. I ordered my kit at Carlisle in 2002 after spending 2 hours talking with both of them. I told them repeatedly, I wanted “Everything” upfront so I can complete this swap over a long weekend. I had also repeatedly expressed how I wanted everything before September because I was going to have to do this swap in the driveway since the house I lived in (at the time, I've since moved) didn’t have a garage. Was told the kit was complete and should be no problem and I would have everything in hand no later than 6 weeks. So I gave them my credit card and charged the $3500+ to it.

In mid September I call because I had not received anything yet. Was told by Mark there was a supply issue with one of their suppliers and something was back ordered. But, they were expecting in any time and I should get it in a few days. 2 weeks later, I get a clutch disc and pressure plate. A few days later another box with a few miscellaneous parts shows up (cross member and mounting hardware) then a few more days later the transmission arrives. Still, don’t have the bell housing, drive shaft and a few other items. I call again and speak with Mark. When I mention the bellhousing, he asked “when did you send yours in?” That’s when I learn, I have to send in my bellhousing to have it machined so their mounting plate will bolt up. First I hear of this! So I got into it with him because I told them I wanted everything upfront and was told I can do this over a long weekend. So after getting on his case, he transfers me to Shafi who insisted they told me I needed to send my bellhousing in. Funny how the two people who were with me at the time I ordered it, never heard it either. Anyhow, Shafi said he had some small block bellhousings there at the shop and he would send me one, just had to pay a core charge.

A few weeks later a second clutch and pressure plate show up. In the box is a receipt for another customer named Steven Durr. Oddly enough, before I had ordered the kit, I had researched it as much as I could on the Internet and one of the webpages I found was that of Steven Durr who had put one in his 1970 Challenger. Figure the odds that several months later, I would have his replacement clutch shipped to me in error.

A few more days go by and still no bell housing, drive shaft or other missing items. Call again, was told it was going out next day. A few days later, get a box with a nasty looking bellhousing. I mean it literally looked like they walk out back to the dumpster and grabbed a bellhousing from the scrap pile next to it. I’ve thrown out better looking pieces than this. What little paint was on it was almost scratched completely off. They didn’t even clean the grease and cobwebs off it before machining it and mounting their plate on it. So I take it apart, take it down to a buddy who abrasive blasted and powdercoated it for me.

When I call about the driveshaft and other missing parts, that’s when I got the next surprise. They ask me for the measurement for the driveshaft. I hadn’t even looked at the directions yet, but apparently, they wanted me to install the transmission first and then call them with the measurement for the driveshaft before they’ll ship that out. So I jump on them again. “I was told I can complete this swap over a long weekend, how can that happen when I have to call you back with the drive shaft measurement and wait for you to have it made and shipped to me? I’m pretty sure I’m not the first person to put one of your kits in an A-Body Barracuda, why don’t you know that measurement already? But they insisted they want the measurement first. So later that night I was venting on the Mopar Mailing List and a couple of guys who have already done the swap gave me their measurement. 48 3/16th they both felt the measurement was a hair short as they had about an inch and a half sticking out the back of the trans. Next day I call Mark and give him that measurement. A few weeks later I call again and he had no recollection of the previous call, so I give him the measurement again. And again a few weeks later.

By this time the weather had already turned and I was going to have to wait until spring to do the swap. Was also missing the optional A-Body shifter handle I ordered but that was no big deal though I had already paid for it. That finally showed up the following February, and was an issue in itself as they seriously buggered up the threads for the knob when it was chromed. I had to chase it with a die before I could get the knob on. I’ve given up on the driveshaft which never came despite multiple calls.

Overall, I’ve heard mixed reviews of the Kesiler kit itself, but pretty consistent complaints about their customer service. I won’t do business with them again.

Tranny issues have always been the problem of my car. The 4-Speed I have in it has always been difficult to shift (the reason I was looking at the Kesiler kit in the first place) A local shop that a lot of the local drag racers speak highly of, has had it apart 4 times. He’s replaced almost everything internal (sliders, syncros, forks, etc), the side cover, all the linkage and shifter and it still shifts hard. Especially when I’m romping on it hard, it doesn’t always want to drop into 2nd and it’s not a smooth shift. Driving around town it’s not too bad but when I’m really stomping on it, it’ll sometimes hang me out. I think every video I have of the car at the track, you can hear me miss 2nd gear. I keep meaning to drop it again and take it to Jamie. Hopefully he can figure out what’s wrong with the thing.
 
This is the short verison of a conversation with Keisler.Just to show how they lie.Who ever heard of giving 500.00 and a restocking fee of 300.00 I am going to try to call you tomarrow.The deal at the show was that they build the trans when I had 500.00 left to pay. She did call and talked to me and I asked her why did they build the trans when I only had 500.00 down.{I was paying paymants}she said that she was going to get back to me.I never heard from her.One thing I was on the road and the time she called me I wasn't home.When I came home I called back and at that time all my plans changed.Layoff etc I talked to someone else It was a guy and he told me that he would get back to me since the trans wasn't susposed to be bilt until I payed everything but the last 500.00 Back when I talked to amanda They had a nother buyer for the trans and sold it to him and at that time I was on hold until my trans was paid for.We need to talk. Mark

KEISLER- I went and found your folder and Amanda, who use to work here in accounting, had several notes on it where she had tried to contact you regarding payment. The notes on the folder says you were sending a check for $500 on 8/30/05. The order was taken at the show on 7/9/05. We told you it would be ready in 2 weeks. We built the transmission and packed up the parts and then never heard from you again?

We called and left a message on 9/30/05, 10/4/05, 10/27/05, 11/9/05, 12/19/05, 1/10/06, 3/7/06. We called the last time on 3/27/06 and left another message stating we have your $500 and will credit you back the $500 minus the restock and cancellation fee of $300 for a total of $200 and asked that you call us and we never heard from you again?

We had the transmission built and modified and all the rest of the parts packed up in boxes and ready to ship. What happened? The number we called all 8 times is the same number you just gave me to call you.

I will turn this over to the boss for credit back of $200. We spent a good deal of time, parts and labor building and modifying your transmission and then packing up everything to get it ready to ship. This is where the restock and cancellation fee comes into play.

If you would like to discuss this with me, you can PM me back and/or I will try to call you Monday morning before 10:00am at the number you provided. Otherwise, I will turn this over to my boss and accounting and we will start the process of the refund of $200.
 
That was the same crap I heard. They would say they called and left messages on specific dates but I never seemed to have those messages on the answering machine. I suspect the cat was erasing them before I got home from work. Every conversation I had with them was when I called them. I don't ever recall them calling me.
 
scary stuff about keisler. spoken with jamie several times and thought he was a good guy. never seemed cocky, but then agsin he had not made a sale yet.
 
Bought a auto overdrive kit. They tried to rip me off by not including what was promised. Tried to resolve it and went through a chain of cocky smart asses that told me I was wrong. E-mailed Shafty, no response. Filed a complaint with my CC co. Shafty the screw calls and agrees to send my parts if I pay and remove all bad posts. Install isnt as simple as they (and all the magazines they pay off) would like you to think. Car wont stay in first under hard acceleration. Spent hours and hours with phone calls and e-mails performing every test they could come up with. Replaced the wiring harness twice. Still has problem. They finally determine that I will need to remove the unit and pay to ship it back ($375 at my cost). If their transmision rebuilding company determines it a warranty issue they will fix it and ship it back. If not I pay to fix and ship back. Whats that old saying screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me? These people are nothing short of theives. I cant stress enough how far anyone considering a overdrive should run in the opposite direction of these people. he lies cheats and steals with a big broad smile on his face. Oh and did I mention this shlub has filed for backruptcy. Just Google it.
 
Someone should re-post this thead so other arent trapped by these crooks. Im not sure how to do it.
 
i have followed OD threads for a long time now on multiple message boards because i want to do some kind of OD in my car some time down the road..

what i have seen is multiple problems getting the keissler to fit into mopars. anything from not clearing the floor properly to bad driveline angles ( they lower the trans for more floor clearance) along with bad parts and long long time waiting for parts...

as far as passon goes i really have never heard anything bad about him until this thread. his OD is a true bolt in compared to anything else out there.have talked to him on the phone and in person and have never had a problem with him. he talked with me for probably about 45 minutes about his OD unit and never tried to be pushy about selling me one. he answered every question i had and let me go without buying anything from him. a friend of mine has a passon OD in his chally and he loves it. said his experience with jamie has been great. at carlisle a couple years ago a friend was having problems with his coronet 4 speed and we asked jamie a few questions about it and he told us to pull it out and he would look at it right then and there. i can't say anything bad about that. i would have no problem with doing business with passon...


as far as which trans is better....

for a bolt in deal that looks and will bolt in stock like there is nothing that compares to the passon trans..

the idea of a 5 or 6 speed is awesome. just not sure that a keissler is the way to go or not. i hear a ton of people complain about the installation, it poping out if gear when really in it and very poor customer service. but there are others that really like the kit... i personally think i have read enough complaints to say that there is definatley something to be concerned about when it comes to dealing with them. just how much to worry i don't know.
 
i have followed OD threads for a long time now on multiple message boards because i want to do some kind of OD in my car some time down the road..

what i have seen is multiple problems getting the keissler to fit into mopars. anything from not clearing the floor properly to bad driveline angles ( they lower the trans for more floor clearance) along with bad parts and long long time waiting for parts...

as far as passon goes i really have never heard anything bad about him until this thread. his OD is a true bolt in compared to anything else out there.have talked to him on the phone and in person and have never had a problem with him. he talked with me for probably about 45 minutes about his OD unit and never tried to be pushy about selling me one. he answered every question i had and let me go without buying anything from him. a friend of mine has a passon OD in his chally and he loves it. said his experience with jamie has been great. at carlisle a couple years ago a friend was having problems with his coronet 4 speed and we asked jamie a few questions about it and he told us to pull it out and he would look at it right then and there. i can't say anything bad about that. i would have no problem with doing business with passon...


as far as which trans is better....

for a bolt in deal that looks and will bolt in stock like there is nothing that compares to the passon trans..

the idea of a 5 or 6 speed is awesome. just not sure that a keissler is the way to go or not. i hear a ton of people complain about the installation, it poping out if gear when really in it and very poor customer service. but there are others that really like the kit... i personally think i have read enough complaints to say that there is definatley something to be concerned about when it comes to dealing with them. just how much to worry i don't know.
Wow, I just read most of this thread and I have to tell you that for the most part Keisler has been pretty good for me. I bought; I think it was there first A-body set up over 10 years ago! It fit fine and worked great. I did have a hard time power shifting into 2nd and when I called Keisler there response was that there may be a burr on the shift handle ball, take it out (4-6 bolts)and emery cloth it....so, i just beat the leaving daylights out of it until it shifted better! I just replaced my clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing and fly wheel, which I bought from Keisler and the Tech guy at Kesiler was great. He talked me out of the hydraulic clutch thing because as he put it, "you loose that hotrod feel with it".
So Keisler gets a thumbs up from me…….

Jamie Passion………..I have not bought anything from Jamie, yet, and I know I will for a project that I have going but I did meet him at the Columbus show, what a nice guy. My good friend from Pittsburgh, Don ALL_MOPAR_PARTS@Yahoo.com deals with Jamie a lot and tells me he is a super nice guy. HemiDenny, a member here and a friend of mine just had his A-833 rebuilt by Passion and he said they were great……. So….there you have it….
I’m no help at all!
 
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