Piston to deck clearance 360

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74desertduster

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Does anybody know what the stock piston to deck clearance was on a 1989 360?

I am working on compression ratio and can't find the distance anywhere.

Also, are there any good head gaskets that keep the bore to a minimum and thickness as well to help compression? My engine is bored .030 over.

Thanks!
 
you are going to need to know the compression height on the pistons...which is the center of the pin to the top of the piston......

for an example...kb107 pistons have a compression height of 1.675 inches...

you would add 1.675 plus the rod lenght of 6.123 plus 1/2 the 360 stroke of 3.58...


so you got 1.675 + 6.123 + 1.79 = 9.588....

now you need to know the deck height of your block....most 360 are around 9.60-9.59....problem is due to manufacturer tolerances...the deck height will varies from the front of the engine to the back and from left to right bank of cylinders...that is why the block needs to be squared by the machine shop ....

as far as head gaskets ..take a look at Mr gasket 1121.
 
Don't you mean 0.60", the ridge on the engine I tore down looks to be a good 1/2" from the top of the deck to the bottom of the ridge. Looks like I would have no problem useing a stroker crank and stock pistons to build my next engine. Sincerely jj
 
Don't you mean 0.60", the ridge on the engine I tore down looks to be a good 1/2" from the top of the deck to the bottom of the ridge. Looks like I would have no problem useing a stroker crank and stock pistons to build my next engine. Sincerely jj
That's not the deck clearance. That's the distance from the deck to the top of the ring travel.
 
Don't suppose you know the average distance of the ridge... I am just guessing until I call my machine shop monday
 
Don't suppose you know the average distance of the ridge... I am just guessing until I call my machine shop monday
You mean how wide the ridge is? There's no need to know that, since it has no bearing on anything.
 
I don't want the top ring sticking out if I use/buy a stroker crank..if you or someone can tell me the the ridge is is roughly 1/4" wide .25" ... And my 3.79" stroke - 3.58" = .21" Puts me In the position to go ahead and buy my crank on A body Only professional advise and word...since I am traveling now and away from my work space. Sincerely jj
 
I don't want the top ring sticking out if I use/buy a stroker crank..if you or someone can tell me the the ridge is is roughly 1/4" wide .25" ... And my 3.79" stroke - 3.58" = .21" Puts me In the position to go ahead and buy my crank on A body Only professional advise and word...since I am traveling now and away from my work space. Sincerely jj
Again, you don't measure deck clearance based on where the top ring is. I cannot be any more clear.
 
Ok rustyrat, I know you think me stupid, so I am gonna ask another?. Is the Mopar 4" crank measured by adding .21" thow twice equaling .42" / 4" - 3.58" top to bottom stroke. Or is the 4" crank made by putting all .42" on on the crank thow equaling .84" if measured bottom of stroke to top of stroke?
 
Listen; work the formula in reverse.
The La engines have a spec deck height of 9.600. This was the designed height from the top of the block to the center of the crank saddles.
The rod lengths had a spec-length of 6.123
For a 360 cuber the crank had a spec of 3.58 stroke. That means, that from the crank's closest position to the deck, to it's furthest away position from the deck, this was specified to be 3.58 inches.
The compression distance of a piston is the exact distance between the center of the wrist-pin to the flat portion of the crown of the piston, irrespective of any dome/dish/or quenchpad.
So with the definitions out of the way;
To determine the compression distance of any piston, to get to a Zero deck, according to the SPEC, here's what you do;
Yo add half the stroke to all of the rod, then subtract that from the spec deck height.
So for the the 360, half the stroke is 3.58/2=1.79, therefore;
9.600 less (1.79+6.123)= a required compression distance of 1.687 to zero-deck height..... to satisfy the specs.
the KB107s have an advertised cd (compression distance) of 1.675, therefore, they will be 1.687 less 1.675= .012 below the deck, if all the parts are on the spec.
If you want them to be at Zero deck;
Either cut the decks down, buy longer rods, or increase the stroke by double the deck-clearance difference, which is 2 x .012= .024, and .024 plus 3.58=3.604 stroke.
Now; all of this, assumes that the parts that you have or buy are on the design spec.
You cannot know this until you have measured everything. And if what you measure is not on spec, then you have to make machining corrections, or change your engineering requirements.
By far, the cheapest correction is by maching the decks to fit what you have.
But I gotta tell ya, if you are running open chamber heads, taking .012 off the decks is pretty much a waste of money.
To take advantage og Quench you must use a closed-chamber design, to get the Q into a ballpark of .035 plus/minus .015./
If your pistons, in truth, come up to .012 below the deck, then your gasket would need to be that much thinner, to drop the head lower. so then, .035 less .012=.023. Adding the tolerance of .015, equals .038. So your headgasket needs to be in the range of .023 to .038. to satisfy the Q requirement....... if the pistons come to .012 below the physical decks, not the specifications.
When you contemplate installing stroker cranks, you almost always HAVE to buy the Matching Pistons. The stock-spec'ed cd distance pistons, may pop up out of the holes beyond what any open chamber cylinder heads can accept, or at least to the max.
For instance; with a 3.79 stroke, the cd for a spec-deck of 9.600 is
9.600 less( 6.123 plus half of 3.79) equals 1.582... and 1.675(the kb107s) being taller than that, will pop up by .093. The stock iron open chamber heads, IIRC have a depth of .080; so yur .013 too far out. Adding the minimum Q of .025, yu'll need a gasket of .013 + .025=.038 Doable but just barely.
However, again, where is the top ring? If the Top ring comes too close to the top of the bore, where all the heat is being made, the gap shrinks at the rate of 3 to 1 for every .001 bigger it gets. This could be an issue, in another way, namely; with the ring sawing back and forth in the groove as it heats and cools, guess what it's doing to the ring land, which is where the ring seals to the piston? yes, it is, wearing it out prematurely, and it is wearing out in the most important part of the stroke.
But if the ring gap shrinks to the point of butting the ends together, it's gonna either slow the piston to a stop or tear the ringland right off.
Furthermore; what is your compression ratio gonna be with that head chamber being nearly filled up? And
what gas will you then be forced to buy?
Or will you even be able to run on pump gas?
Whatever company offers a stroker kit, has thought this all thru, and the pistons in the kit are worth every penny you pay for them.

Having said all that, the KB107s that I installed into my 1971 360 block, with a stock 3.58 stroke crank, did come in at the design spec of .012 below deck; so I would have been able to run the .028 gasket for a Q of .040, on a closed chamber head. But I chose a different route.
And, IMHO,
on the street, the difference between a 365 and a 384 is as good as meaningless...... because; at the bottom, either will annihilate the tires, and your 60foots will measure in the 2.2 or more range, and yur gonna have to shift before you hit the speed limit of 65 mph, and when you do, your rpm will drop right off the cam. Whatever power makes a 384 cuber faster, on the cam, to 65mph, will be lost in the 60ft, so not a chance would I build a 384 over a 365 for street use, unless the kit was really really affordable. Instead, I would spend some extra money on the heads.
 
@AJ/FormS , good post except the last paragraph.
I couldn’t disagree more. Your assumption is a mindless smashing of the gas pedal to the floor without care or concern. While that’s fun at times, your assumption is that every one does this and proof is the amazing repeatability of your words in every post concerning this.

While a serious and well thought out suspension and tire size will limit this to a degree and it is a huge improvement over stock springs and tires or upgraded tires, the constant of a successful take off out of the hole is carefully applying power to the point of spin without a significant amount of wheel spin. You seem to assume no one can do this all the time.

There is the challenge of street racing on asphalt. Enough spin to go but not spin out of control going no where.

One more thing I have found in your post which is otherwise dead on is the piston deck height on a stock block and the idea that decking the block for a zero deck is what seems to be a waste of time. Decking the block for a zero deck height, if one wishes it, is building the engine to the spec they desire. Proper mathematicians is in order before any machine work is done for sure. Also a dead smooth surface for sealing.

On one of my 360’s, the KB-107’s are down in the hole @ .020.
The deck only took a very minor skim cut to assure it was level.
The engine was not blue printed, so the other exact specs and can not give as to possibly explain anything else about the engine. It was just a stock block bored .030 and the rods were good to go on a freshly cut stock crank.

Good post AJ. Well said.
 
Last edited:
Does anybody know what the stock piston to deck clearance was on a 1989 360?

I am working on compression ratio and can't find the distance anywhere.

Also, are there any good head gaskets that keep the bore to a minimum and thickness as well to help compression? My engine is bored .030 over.

Thanks!

Not sure if the '89 360 roller engines were TBI or not, but the '89 318 TBI Roller engines are 9.2:1 cr with the pistons .040 down in the hole. Pic below.

20230119_164429.jpg


Here is the thin 318 Mr. Gasket 1121G head gasket on a 360, plenty of room to seal there yet.

Screenshot_20210713-203352_Chrome.jpg



☆☆☆☆☆
 
I like the pictures, I would love to see the same with closed chamber aluminum heads with a squish band added, and explain how it was added, and what width and why....any takers? LoL Sincerly Jesse
 
Listen; work the formula in reverse.
The La engines have a spec deck height of 9.600. This was the designed height from the top of the block to the center of the crank saddles.
The rod lengths had a spec-length of 6.123
For a 360 cuber the crank had a spec of 3.58 stroke. That means, that from the crank's closest position to the deck, to it's furthest away position from the deck, this was specified to be 3.58 inches.
The compression distance of a piston is the exact distance between the center of the wrist-pin to the flat portion of the crown of the piston, irrespective of any dome/dish/or quenchpad.
So with the definitions out of the way;
To determine the compression distance of any piston, to get to a Zero deck, according to the SPEC, here's what you do;
Yo add half the stroke to all of the rod, then subtract that from the spec deck height.
So for the the 360, half the stroke is 3.58/2=1.79, therefore;
9.600 less (1.79+6.123)= a required compression distance of 1.687 to zero-deck height..... to satisfy the specs.
the KB107s have an advertised cd (compression distance) of 1.675, therefore, they will be 1.687 less 1.675= .012 below the deck, if all the parts are on the spec.
If you want them to be at Zero deck;
Either cut the decks down, buy longer rods, or increase the stroke by double the deck-clearance difference, which is 2 x .012= .024, and .024 plus 3.58=3.604 stroke.
Now; all of this, assumes that the parts that you have or buy are on the design spec.
You cannot know this until you have measured everything. And if what you measure is not on spec, then you have to make machining corrections, or change your engineering requirements.
By far, the cheapest correction is by maching the decks to fit what you have.
But I gotta tell ya, if you are running open chamber heads, taking .012 off the decks is pretty much a waste of money.
To take advantage og Quench you must use a closed-chamber design, to get the Q into a ballpark of .035 plus/minus .015./
If your pistons, in truth, come up to .012 below the deck, then your gasket would need to be that much thinner, to drop the head lower. so then, .035 less .012=.023. Adding the tolerance of .015, equals .038. So your headgasket needs to be in the range of .023 to .038. to satisfy the Q requirement....... if the pistons come to .012 below the physical decks, not the specifications.
When you contemplate installing stroker cranks, you almost always HAVE to buy the Matching Pistons. The stock-spec'ed cd distance pistons, may pop up out of the holes beyond what any open chamber cylinder heads can accept, or at least to the max.
For instance; with a 3.79 stroke, the cd for a spec-deck of 9.600 is
9.600 less( 6.123 plus half of 3.79) equals 1.582... and 1.675(the kb107s) being taller than that, will pop up by .093. The stock iron open chamber heads, IIRC have a depth of .080; so yur .013 too far out. Adding the minimum Q of .025, yu'll need a gasket of .013 + .025=.038 Doable but just barely.
However, again, where is the top ring? If the Top ring comes too close to the top of the bore, where all the heat is being made, the gap shrinks at the rate of 3 to 1 for every .001 bigger it gets. This could be an issue, in another way, namely; with the ring sawing back and forth in the groove as it heats and cools, guess what it's doing to the ring land, which is where the ring seals to the piston? yes, it is, wearing it out prematurely, and it is wearing out in the most important part of the stroke.
But if the ring gap shrinks to the point of butting the ends together, it's gonna either slow the piston to a stop or tear the ringland right off.
Furthermore; what is your compression ratio gonna be with that head chamber being nearly filled up? And
what gas will you then be forced to buy?
Or will you even be able to run on pump gas?
Whatever company offers a stroker kit, has thought this all thru, and the pistons in the kit are worth every penny you pay for them.

Having said all that, the KB107s that I installed into my 1971 360 block, with a stock 3.58 stroke crank, did come in at the design spec of .012 below deck; so I would have been able to run the .028 gasket for a Q of .040, on a closed chamber head. But I chose a different route.
And, IMHO,
on the street, the difference between a 365 and a 384 is as good as meaningless...... because; at the bottom, either will annihilate the tires, and your 60foots will measure in the 2.2 or more range, and yur gonna have to shift before you hit the speed limit of 65 mph, and when you do, your rpm will drop right off the cam. Whatever power makes a 384 cuber faster, on the cam, to 65mph, will be lost in the 60ft, so not a chance would I build a 384 over a 365 for street use, unless the kit was really really affordable. Instead, I would spend some extra money on the heads.
Like the top ring info.
 
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