Poor Little Cone Style

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Sorry Man,, but you've both had tons to say, and this just isn't the season,..

I think your point has been made, as has RRR's,..

my mind is already made up, I bet other's are too, - any more info is overload,

Sincerely, - Season's best ,.. have at it ...

P.S. besides, I'm starting to feel like a hypocrite.. sheesh
 
Reminds me of Joe Dirt.

How does a posi trac rear end on a Plymouth work?
 
You know what... When you ask someone to stop writing something because you are tired of seeing it then you have a problem. It's totally illogical when you have the option to ignore it or correct what being said. If you are sick of the thread then just don't read it. If you can't stop yourself from continuing to read it then that's an issue concerning you possible lack of willpower, and not the fault of the poster.
 
You know what... When you ask someone to stop writing something because you are tired of seeing it then you have a problem. It's totally illogical when you have the option to ignore it or correct what being said. If you are sick of the thread then just don't read it. If you can't stop yourself from continuing to read it then that's an issue concerning you possible lack of willpower, and not the fault of the poster.

Yep,, you're absolutely right,, my apology..
 
Well I came out of this refreshed knowing RRR didnt tell me to ...go eat a frickin turd...would'nt go well with this eggnog...lmao...yee haw...now that was some funny sheit man I dont care who ya are
 
inertia....Sir , from one subject to another you are a true gentleman of the Empire. I've attached your award. :)
 

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Well I came out of this refreshed knowing RRR didnt tell me to ...go eat a frickin turd...would'nt go well with this eggnog...lmao...yee haw...now that was some funny sheit man I dont care who ya are
LOL.. yeah maybe not.... unless you put a lot of sugar on it... but then again.... maybe not.
 
Then again, how about this...
 

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I would still argue that while they are good units, the cone style is not torque sensing.. Those groves on the cones serve the same purpose as the groves in a syncro ring... def not "threaded" and not threaded into the case at all. The spring preload is ALL that keeps the cones pushed into the taper of the housing. There could be a small amount of force from the spider gears pushing away from each other too I guess. There are NO SPRINGS in a clutch style, but there do have two concave wave type plates in the clutch pack, to provide some preload. Most cone styles I have seen that fail, do so as a result of the cross pin wallowing out the case.

Nothing mechanical will last forever. The thing about the cone is spring pressure, this being why the Auburn Pro Series is like having a Spool set up, it has far better spring pressure. Spring pressures can be changed from 200 lb's to 800 lb's so I've read, I've never personally done it yet. But I do know that there are failures in all mechanical things even the best of them and the Borg Warner Auburn Sure Grips are in fact some of the best of things. If not the Dana 60 is junk, try and pass that off:protest: The pins are in fact what usually gives out on the cone style eventually but that is due to excessive wear like a flywheel gets after 100,000 miles. There might even be a few flywheels out there that have been welded up, I can bet on it:sad9: If you think about it and picture yourself in a brand new BIG & HEAVY 1970 Super Bee with a nice powerful big block and a spin resistant cone type Dana 60 with big N 50's laying down rubber everywhere you go, you might ask yourself hmmm how long will this last before the rear explodes:burnout:
 
I have been building cone-types, exactly like RRR, for more than 30 years.I dont care about the science of it. I dont care what you do or dont call it. I know what works. And mine have endured abuse for more than 100000miles. And in my experience, at least for street smallblocks the 741s are quite capable. But if you like one-legged burn-outs you deserve what you get. Im with Rusty, again.
 
Supershaft, that is a torque differentiating trans-axle. It has servos which modulate clutch drag to planetary gear sets which modify the output ratios.

And the "torque sensing" in a clutch or cone type occurs when the rotational force of the carrier applies pressure against the spider gears via the spider gear pin from force generated by the rotation of the ring gear on the carrier. The torque sensing is not monitored and has no feedback mechanism other than the resistance of the inertia of the vehicle and the differential rotational speed of each axle.

The spider gears attempt to ramp up (separate) or leave engagment from the gears on the cone or the clutch face. This causes lateral opposing force linear to the axles outward. This causes high force applied to the cone or clutch to the left and to the right which compresses them between the carrier and the cone or clutch plates which are engaged to the axle which causes increased unison between the carrier and the two axles. Hence when energy is applied, the sure grip applies increased force to the posi traction process. It is brilliantly crude and effective.
 
I've used both in my many years on mother earth. They both are capable units when both are in good working order.
The down side to a cone unit is, when the cones wear to the point that they start to touch bottom in the two case halves, they no longer will lock up. Hence one wheel starts to spin more than the other. When this happens the two small spider gears start rotating around the axle that is holding. These two small spiders were never intended to spin that much, especially when hammering down on the throttle. The result is devastating. The spiders seize to the shaft followed by the cross shaft breaking/ripping the small .250 x 1" dowel pin. You wind up with a trashed case and the a pair of welded to the cross shaft spider gears that you can't buy anywhere. I was talking to a man I think he was from Australia that was attempting to have these gear manufactured by a shop there but the cost wound up being to much. If you have a clutch unit and you wear the clutches out generally they are rebuild-able. This is my experience with the both.
 
Supershaft, that is a torque differentiating trans-axle. It has servos which modulate clutch drag to planetary gear sets which modify the output ratios.

And the "torque sensing" in a clutch or cone type occurs when the rotational force of the carrier applies pressure against the spider gears via the spider gear pin from force generated by the rotation of the ring gear on the carrier. The torque sensing is not monitored and has no feedback mechanism other than the resistance of the inertia of the vehicle and the differential rotational speed of each axle.

The spider gears attempt to ramp up (separate) or leave engagment from the gears on the cone or the clutch face. This causes lateral opposing force linear to the axles outward. This causes high force applied to the cone or clutch to the left and to the right which compresses them between the carrier and the cone or clutch plates which are engaged to the axle which causes increased unison between the carrier and the two axles. Hence when energy is applied, the sure grip applies increased force to the posi traction process. It is brilliantly crude and effective.

What you described above applies to the clutch type only, not the cone style.
The 1969-1974 used the Borg Warner Spin Resistant (# 2881343) or cone style SG. This unit utilized a spring- preloaded cone friction for the locking action.
Torque had nothing to do with locking to two axles up.
 
Gosh yall. All I was doin was trying to help people. Mods yall can just delete this whole Goddamn thing. I won't be doing anything like this anymore.
 
Gosh yall. All I was doin was trying to help people. Mods yall can just delete this whole Goddamn thing. I won't be doing anything like this anymore.

Hell I agree with you. If you can recall other threads that condemn the cone SG, you should recall me posting something to the effect. " Your Right, They are Junk, so Send Them all to Me" Hell I love them. But the Cone- Clutch SG debate will go on as long as the Chicken and the Egg!
 
Damn the operating principle of a cone Sg is so simple I really don't see the argument.
Take two plastic drinking tumblers, slide one into the other. WA-LA the tight fit between the two due to friction is why they lock up! Apply more pressure to the top glass, (the Springs) the more hold! Use a smaller glass into a larger one, it bottoms out, you have NO HOLD between the two! (as in when the cones bottom out in the case). All the BS written in the Auburn ad is there to blow smoke up the consumers A-hole and entice you to buy it. Kind of like Ricardo Montalban And "Rich Corinthian Leather" in the Cordoba commercials. When all it really was ? Pleather! plastic leather.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o&feature=player_detailpage"]1975 Chrysler Cordoba - YouTube[/ame]
 
Gosh yall. All I was doin was trying to help people. Mods yall can just delete this whole Goddamn thing. I won't be doing anything like this anymore.

I agree with RRR on this, the fact that the mods should delete or lock the thread. I disagreed with RRR on the operation differences, others with knowlage chimed in with there input, and that's that. I personally don't care what others think either, I am tired of hearing about it already.
 
I agree with RRR on this, the fact that the mods should delete or lock the thread. I disagreed with RRR on the operation differences, others with knowlage chimed in with there input, and that's that. I personally don't care what others think either, I am tired of hearing about it already.

Hell I love a spirited debate. The great thing about the internet? You don't have to read what you don't want to!
Like the Word Association Thread on here 1542 pages! 38533 posts? But I don't read it if I don't want to.
 
I don't mind a spirited debate. I don't even mind those who argued against my theory of operation. But I didn't post this to try and help people and then get damn crucified for it. People contacting so called "experts" to come on here and try to discredit what I have done. You won't see me do another how to thread on here.
 
I don't mind a spirited debate. I don't even mind those who argued against my theory of operation. But I didn't post this to try and help people and then get damn crucified for it. People contacting so called "experts" to come on here and try to discredit what I have done. You won't see me do another how to thread on here.

That is a shame. It will be our loss.
 
RRR, I am totally onboard with your described operation of the SG.
I agree, delete the whole thing and just create a new thread solely about rebuilding a cone SG. Then ask the mods to lock the thread. All this debate has taken away from your great info. My fault included.
 
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