Pulling my hair out!!!

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airkiller

airkiller

MOPARS Rule
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
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Location
Sacramento CA
I live in Sacramento. California and I am in need of some serious help with my 74 Duster. I have been engaged in a restoration of this car since August of last year. I have posted a few times on this web site and even started a thread on my progress in the Members Restoration forum, But I have to say this thing has kicked my ***. I can not for the life of me figure out what is going on with this car. #1 issue is I can not even get the thing to run. It will start, run at a hi idle then shut down. I can not seem to get the engine to stay running even when moving the dist. to try to find a sweet spot to start tuning from. I have checked that the Dist is installed right. I have check my timing mark @TDC and the dist is pointing at #1 cap location but when it fires and is running, by holding the rpm @ around 2000-3000 I can not even see the timing mark on the balancer.

#2 Issue is that for some reason the amp meter is pegged over to the right when the engine is running. I have burned one harness already and had to repair it. I have swapped voltage regulators, alternator and still can not seem to get things right.

I am not stupid with mechanics. I am a FAA Airframe and Powrerplant Mechanic and have worked on aircraft and cars most all my life.

I NEED HELP! It there anyone around my area that can give me a hand. You know that second set of eyes thing. If I do not get this car fixed soon, I think I am just going to throw in the towel and sell this POS. I bought the car as a running project car last Feb. for $4800 and have invested over $10,000 in new engine, new 4 speed, new complete PST front suspension, all new interior with bucket seats and console. This car is just about ready to be a super gem, but is useless unless I can get the thing to run. I know there is a local MOPAR club in town, but I have no one to talk to about getting a hand on this thing.

CAN ANYONE HELP<PLEASE! Feel free to call me if you can help.

Jeff Weiss
(916) 925-4917
 
What have you replaced in the ignition system? Plugs, wires, EI box,. How about the fuel system? Filter, carb. How are the fuel lines routed to the carb? Keep them away from the engine.
 
Hi there, there is no reason this engine should not run if it was set up properly. it sounds to me and i am no expert that your cam was not properly centerlined or degreed. this might explain the timing mark problem .if that is not the case than you might want to check , and don't get mad at me but make sure TDC is on the compession stroke and not the exhaust. its quite possible you are out 180 degrees. i don't know if an engine would even run if thats the case but it sounds to me like you would try anything right now. good luck Paul
 
This is simple. You are a hotshot electronics and airframe expert, this means that YOU CAN FIGURE THIS OUT

NO ONE

The alternator is overcharging? EASY I already told you. UNPLUG the two field connections and DO WITHOUT the alternator until you get the engine to run

You need THREE things to run an engine

COMPRESSION ---have you checked it? (using a gauge on the starter?)

FUEL--This thing been parked? Any chance the fuel is stale? RIG a can overhead with a siphon into the carb, plug off the fuel pump and try that. Put just a little squirt if neccessary down the carb throat with a squirt bottle

IGNITION. You need ignition and at the right TIME

Since you seem to have wiring issues, WHAT KIND of igniton you have?

Points?

Stock Mopar ECU?

MSD/ Other?

UNHOOK the ignition system from the wiring harness and use JUMPER WIRES to hook direct to the battery. That way you'll know there's NOTHING except right at the system to screw up, at least until you get it to run

CHECK THE SPARK. Unplug the coil wire at the distributor, use your 12V test lamp, grounded, as a probe at the coil tower, to check for a nice, fat, blue spark.

Then move to the cap, check it for cracks, dirt, grease, moisture. Pull one wire out of the cap at a time, crank the engine, and check with your probe for a spark. Check all eight

TIMING There is NO substitute for checking the timing AND THE TIMING MARKS

Buy, make or steal a piston stop. Like this

http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/pic_installation.jpg

Remove no1 plug, make sure the piston is down "a ways", and unhook the battery ground. Install the stop, and using a wrench on the dampener bolt, rotate the engine until it stops on the piston stop. Make a mark onto the dampener directly under TDC on the timing tab. Do the same CCW. Now you'll have TWO marks some distance apart. True TDC will be 1/2 way between, and if the original mark is correct, that is where it will be

Now pull out the stop, hook up the battery, and stick your finger in no1. Bump the engine until your finger gets "blowd out." Now look at the marks, should be just coming up. Bump until they are on about 5-10BTC for a stock or mild cam, 10-15BTC for a real lopety cam.

Now with the marks as above, move to the distributor. Take the time to accurately scribe a mark on the distributor housing rim right under the no1 tower. Now rotate the dist CW (retard), then slowly CCW (advance) until the points just open, or until the reluctor is aligned with the rough center of the reluctor core.

THE ENGINE SHOULD START AND RUN at this setting.

If not, "spring" the rotor and see if the rotor moves CW, then springs back freely CCW (on a small block). This would indicate that at least the mechanical advance was free and working

Post the details of your ignition so we can help you hook it up right, and STAY ON THIS THREAD so things don't become confusing.
 
The original Dist. and control box were put back in but the wires, cap, rotor and plugs are all new. If I start the car and hold the throttle to get a RPM of around 2000-3000 I can get the engine to continue to run. As soon as I let off the gas, IT DIES?
 
Ok. The ignition system is the stock electronic unit. I removed it from the car when the project was degun, cleaned , inspected and outfitted with a new cap and rotor. The plugs are all new and so are the wires. I think I am getting closer because the engine will start but will not run at lower rpm. The timing mark has me baffled. The mark on the balancer was very deep and long from the factory. I cleaned and painted the balancer during the resto and put white paint in the factory mark.

I have checked the dist position many times and when the balancer mark is at O TDC the rotor is pointing at #1 tower, but the car will not run there. I have to rotate the dist CCW quite a ways just to get the car to start. At O degrees the car will sputter and fire will come out the carb. It looks to me that I have to retard the timing just to get it to run.

The pics show the position at which the engine is at now. It will start and run at high rpm but will not idle at all.
 

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The dist. does not look that far off to me. Re-read my post. Do NOT set the dist up to fire at TDC. IF you have a mild cam you want 5-10BTC. If you have a pretty lopey cam, you want more, 10-15 or so.

You should be able to "static time" the dist so it starts right up. I would seriously suggest you do as I posted and check your timing mark with a piston stop

After you have done that, you can set the timing mark at 10-15, or depending on your cam, and set the reluctor "aligned." IF YOU GET PRACTICED at this, you can do the following:

With the engine sitting at the desired BTC at the marks, and ignition on, and with a spark gap at the coil (your 12V bulb probe) you can turn the dist CW (retard), then move it CCW (advance) PAST the reluctor/ pickup core and IT WILL SPARK. If you go back and forth 3-5 times, "looking" for the "spark point" you can slow down your movement until you get the thing really close.

AT THIS POINT you can forget about timing for the moment, because it should start and run.

DID YOU as I asked before, "spring" the rotor to see if the advance mechanism is OK?

After you have done this, no reason you can not eliminate timing for the moment, and concentrate on fuel. '


LOOK FOR a huge vacuum leak. At this point that's what it just might be.
 
When the balancer is at TDC, are you sure both valves are closed in the number 1 cyl? Could the timing chain be a tooth off? Any significant vacuum leaks?
 
If it runs at higher RPM but won't idle it sounds like a vacuum leak from here.
The timing marks are off the balancer when you put the light on it because of the advance due to the high RPM.

Good Luck.

George
 
HAve discovered that if I hold the choke butterfly nearly closed, the car will run at that point. I think the reason I can not see a timing mark is that the rpm is high and thus the dist is mechanically advanced and pulling the timing mark out of veiw. I have to get the rpm down in order to see timing. I have confirmed that the factory timing mark is fairly close to TDC. I have rotated the engine with the #1 plug removed and have determined that the piston was at the top of its travel. I have not tied a piston stop but watched the movement of a wood dowel as the engine was rotated back and forth around the TDC mark. I am thbinking that this may be a fuel issue, MAYBE???

ANy ideas on how to find vacuum leak.
 
I might have missed this, but are you sure you are not 180 degrees out? You did drop your distributor in on the compression stroke didn't you. Also, if you did all you have to do is make sure that your #1 plug is were your rotor is at and go with the firing order from there. It doesn't neccissarily have to point at the #1 plug/cylinder as long as your firing order is correct on your cap.
 
..............Well then u have a major vaccum leak,,,,,,check a the carb base........or u may have some plugged bleeds....kim.......
 
The car is runnig at idle!! To my dismay, I went to the box that the carb came in. I went through all of the goodies packaged with the carb when I got it and did not notice a very important item. After you guys recomending vacuum leak, I starting looking for proper plumbing and such. I niticed that the carb was shipped with the PCV connection at the front, but did not notice the extra port for PCV on the back of the carb. More inportantly, I did not notice the plug for said port in the box, WHAT A DUMB A>>>. After installation of the plug and removal of the "Massive" vacuum leak, the engine idles fine. NOW if I can only figure out why the darn thing want to over charge so bad.

I have changed voltage regulator and even installed a second alternator. It seemed to be fixed when I changed the alternator, but then the problem came back. Do you think I fried the second alterbator. If I pull the field wires from the alternator, the charging stops. I am worried I am going to fry the ampmeter circuit again. Any thoughts?
 
I have never seen it done or tried it, but someone mentioned that if you use a propane torch unlit and turn it on a little so when you get close to the leak at the carb, the idle will step up indicating where your leak is.
 
I have to say, today I was really down with all of the trouble I was having. I have been wrenching on my Duster for almost a year and frankly I am ready for this project to be DONE!! ANy rate you guys have really help me with my problems and I want to say THANKS. I do not have anyone around my town that I can talk to with out them holding out there hand for some payment. I realize that they have business to take care of but not everthing needs to result in a bill. I have been able to find both of my issues today with the help that was provided to me from this web page and even a local gent can over to see if he could help while in town, THANKS CREED! I just wanted to say Thanks to everyone.

So, the trouble with the no idle was a missing plug in the back of the new Edelbrock 1403 carb and the charging issue is residual. The original issue was a cracked wire at the right rear engine harness that was the alternator charge lead. Some one had repaired it before me with crimp connectors and the exposed wire shorted to the cracked fan blower motor ground connected to the rear of the right head. That direct short burned down the ampmeter circuit and took out the fusable link and bulkhead connector. After repair I still had a 40 amp plus charge rate at 2000 rpm. At the recommendation of one of the posting members, I changed the brand new Die Hard battery with a test battery and my charge rate is now less then 20 amps. Looks like the Die Hard was not so hard to kill. I will see if they will replace it.

Here are a few pics of what I have been working on.
 

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Glad you are makin/ progress. That's a good lookin' car

Where did you get the repop? restored? ralleys?
 
4spdragtop said:
I have never seen it done or tried it, but someone mentioned that if you use a propane torch unlit and turn it on a little so when you get close to the leak at the carb, the idle will step up indicating where your leak is.
Click to expand...


mmm I wonder if thats more dangerous then the "proper old-school" way of finding vacuum leaks ( take a can of starter fluid and spray around the carb seeing if there is a spot that you spray which changes the idle speed)

this is kinda dangerous and supposedly many eyebrows have been lost to this method. I've done it with success and no eyebrow loss.

I'd field test your alternator or pull it and take it to get tested for free at oreilly
charging circuit is pretty simple, let me quote dan, not sure if this all still applies with your electric regulator but it should.
"
The system is really simple. Components are alternator, voltage regulator, ignition switch, and four wires. Check for line voltage at voltage regulator "IGN" terminal with key on and engine stopped. If none, fix the wire between the ignition switch and regulator "IGN" terminal, or the ignition switch itself. If you do find line voltage at "IGN" terminal, then check for voltage acros regulator "FLD" terminal and ground with engine running. If none, replace voltage regulator. If you do find voltage at regulator "FLD" terminal, check for voltage at alternator "FLD" terminal with engine running. If none, fix wire between regulator and alternator "FLD" terminals. If you do find voltage here, then check for 0v between alternator B+ output terminal (the threaded stud) and battery poz with engine stopped. If you see 0v, your car is possessed or it is in fact charging and you're not measuring it correctly. If you see anything other than 0v, then fix the wire from the alternator B+ to the firewall main disconnect and the big terminal on the starter motor and the big terminal on the starter relay and battery poz.
"
 
when i read the choke comment, i knew it was a vac leak

use water spray to find vac leaks, but when you cover the carb with your hand and it does not die...the leak is at the carb.
 
airkiller said:
HAve discovered that if I hold the choke butterfly nearly closed, the car will run at that point. I think the reason I can not see a timing mark is that the rpm is high and thus the dist is mechanically advanced and pulling the timing mark out of veiw. I have to get the rpm down in order to see timing. I have confirmed that the factory timing mark is fairly close to TDC. I have rotated the engine with the #1 plug removed and have determined that the piston was at the top of its travel. I have not tied a piston stop but watched the movement of a wood dowel as the engine was rotated back and forth around the TDC mark. I am thbinking that this may be a fuel issue, MAYBE???

ANy ideas on how to find vacuum leak.
Click to expand...
spray carb cleaner all over the intake while its running you will find the vac leak that way
 
Glad to see you found that vacuum leak! I like the carb cleaner method of finding vacuum leaks. With all that wind coming from the fan it can be hard to use propane, especially above idle.

I too am an aircraft mechanic, C-130 engines. What airframe do you work on?
 
Well toadya we got the car moved under its own power. I still is a bit rough on the ears, with open headers and all. I hope to get the exhaust system installed on Thurs.

ANy way, to respond to a few questions. The Rally Wheels came from a guy in San Jose California. I found him on e-bay and he seemed to have the best prices on new repro wheels. I think I paid $600 for the wheel, Hub, Rings and lug nuts with locks.

For those interested, I am currently employed with Cessna Citation. I work on the infamous Corporate jets that Detroit gave such a bad name to. It pays the bills and is fun work. I am ex Air Force and have worked KC-135, B-52, T-43, F-4, and T-37 aircraft. Now days I prefer the smaller jets, eairer to work on and not nearly as complex.

I hope to get the car detailed Friday and take the completed resto pictures this week end. Once I get the pics, I will work on a little story for those interested in what I have learned, liked and disliked. Thanks for the interest.
 
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