rebuild help /6

[1970valiant]

i have never rebuilt a engine before. im rebuilding my 225 and EFI and turboing it with the help of my dad so this will be a interesting first project. im looking for stoplight to stoplight power so high torque.
i have a few questions;
what is the standard bore size?
can the stock push rods work with hydraulic lifters?
where is a good place to buy a rebuild kit, HV oil pump, and radiator?
what is your thoughts on MSD ignition?

 

[805moparkid]

i have never rebuilt a engine before. im rebuilding my 225 and EFI and turboing it with the help of my dad so this will be a interesting first project. im looking for stoplight to stoplight power so high torque.
i have a few questions;
what is the standard bore size?
can the stock push rods work with hydraulic lifters?
where is a good place to buy a rebuild kit, HV oil pump, and radiator?
what is your thoughts on MSD ignition?

first off where are you in AZ??

second... you do not want a hyd lifter setup...

stock bore is 3.40

you do not need a HV oil pump... you can contact doug dutra on slantsix.org for the good oil pump...

 

[1970valiant]

first off where are you in AZ??

second... you do not want a hyd lifter setup...

stock bore is 3.40

you do not need a HV oil pump... you can contact doug dutra on slantsix.org for the good oil pump...

Peoria
Why not go with hydraulic lifters?

Ok thanks I'll see what he has

 

[805moparkid]

Peoria
Why not go with hydraulic lifters?

Ok thanks I'll see what he has

they just arn't a good setup in a slant...

and can you not adjust valves? with locking adjusters you only have to do it maybe once a year depending on how much you drive it...

 

[1970valiant]

they just arn't a good setup in a slant...

and can you not adjust valves? with locking adjusters you only have to do it maybe once a year depending on how much you drive it...

alright ill keep that mind thanks!

oh and do you know if the stock oil pump is at a angle? my engine tiped over :banghead: so when i took off the oil pump it kinda looks bent. the base of where oil filter goes looks more at a angle then rest of the pump housing.

 

[805moparkid]

lol i dont think so...

 

[Bill Dedman]

what is the standard bore size?
3.40"
can the stock push rods work with hydraulic lifters?
My advice: stay away from hydraulic lifters.
where is a good place to buy a rebuild kit, hv oil pump, and radiator?
The "rebuild kit" is a no-no if you want to make good power with a turbo. Virtually all rebuild kits" have bast pistons. For a decent turbo installation, you need forged pistons. Wiseco makes some good ones for a /6.
what is your thoughts on msd ignition?
Excellent racing equipment, but mopar orange box hardware works well, too and is a lot cheaper.

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[slantsixdan]

they just arn't a good setup in a slant...

And you're basing that claim on…sorry, how many hydro-lifter slant-6s have you owned and operated? It's bull. They're a fine setup in the slant. Camshaft selection is more limited, but that's about the only downside.

 

[slantsixdan]

what is your thoughts on MSD ignition?

Not especially reliable, and it's overpriced. HEI upgrade is better. (Mopar orange box is poor-quality Chinese junk)

 

[805moparkid]

And you're basing that claim on…sorry, how many hydro-lifter slant-6s have you owned and operated? It's bull. They're a fine setup in the slant. Camshaft selection is more limited, but that's about the only downside.

i find the slant (or any other engine) run much better with a mech cam than a hyd one... you will get better vacuum and a better running engine (if tuned correctly) than a hyd setup... and yea its just so hard to adjust valves three times a year or less depending on how tight your rockers are...

but i do prefer a mech cam to a hyd any day...

Not especially reliable, and it's overpriced. HEI upgrade is better. (Mopar orange box is poor-quality Chinese junk)

petronix is a good and easier upgrade to... agreed on the mopar junk... darn near everything with the mopar logo on it now is junk...

 

[Bill Dedman]

i find the slant (or any other engine) run much better with a mech cam than a hyd one... you will get better vacuum and a better running engine (if tuned correctly) than a hyd setup... and yea its just so hard to adjust valves three times a year or less depending on how tight your rockers are...

but i do prefer a mech cam to a hyd any day...




petronix is a good and easier upgrade to... agreed on the mopar junk... darn near everything with the mopar logo on it now is junk...

I, also, prefer a mechanical cam to hydraulic, particularly if you're going to be racing the car, because people who write articles with comparisons between the two, frequently point out that the hydraulic lifters have a tendency to bleed down during the duty cycle, resulting in loss of both lift AND effective duration, and lose power that way. With the excellent design of the '6 solid lifter setup, I see no need to even try a hydraulic cam for a comparison.


My 360 Magnum-powered (when normaly-aspirated) '72 Valiant ran an orange box for several years with no malfunctions. I was spinnning it 6 grand, with regularity... I put an MSD Boostmaster (which is an analog, non-multiple spark, adjustable advance unit) on it when I added the Vortech centrifugal V-1, S-trim blower, and it immediately fried an electronic part inside the Boostmaster module. Sent it back, they fixed it and have had no problems since. So, I can only give them a "C" for reliability.

Our /6 turbo car has an MSD 6-AL digital. We haven't had any experience with it, yet. If it proves unrelliable, I will SURELY let FABO members know!!!

This is all very subjective on my part, and of course, is just MY 2-cents...:tard:

 

[805moparkid]

its seems that the 6-al and -2 units are the really reliable units...

all the others do have issues... i dont know why...lol

 

[slantsixdan]

i find the slant (or any other engine) run much better with a mech cam than a hyd one... you will get better vacuum and a better running engine

Sorry, that's just plain flatly not true. Remember why Chrysler ditched the solid lifters in favour of hydraulics in '81…it wasn't because the hydro lifters were less expensive; they were in fact considerably more expensive, and then there were the engineering and tooling costs associated. Remember in 1981 Chrysler scarcely had two spare pennies to rub together. No, it was because with solid lifters the slant-6 wouldn't run consistently enough to pass tightening Federal emissions type-approval tests. That is a long way of saying the hydro-lifter engines run smoother with less misfiring. The factory hydro cam was wimpy, to be sure, but that's a separate issue that can be fixed with a cam swap.

but i do prefer a mech cam to a hyd any day..

That's an opinion you're welcome to hold, as long as the original poster in this thread understands it is not based on any fact. I'm agnostic on the matter if we disregard cam selection.

 

[slantsixdan]

i have never rebuilt a engine before. im rebuilding my 225 and EFI and turboing it with the help of my dad so this will be a interesting first project.

Wow…that's a very ambitious, extensive, expensive first project to bite off all at once. It's all been done; people have turbocharged the slant-6 and have fuel-injected it, but it is in every case a very big undertaking even for those very experienced with engines in general and slant-6s in particular. What's your father's level of experience and knowledge? What's your funding look like?

im looking for stoplight to stoplight power so high torque.

That's a reasonable goal. Be advised you needn't necessarily turbocharge or fuel-inject the engine to achieve it. You don't need to risk your wallet with Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.

 

[805moparkid]

Sorry, that's just plain flatly not true. Remember why Chrysler ditched the solid lifters in favour of hydraulics in '81…it wasn't because the hydro lifters were less expensive; they were in fact considerably more expensive, and then there were the engineering and tooling costs associated. Remember in 1981 Chrysler scarcely had two spare pennies to rub together. No, it was because with solid lifters the slant-6 wouldn't run consistently enough to pass tightening Federal emissions type-approval tests. That is a long way of saying the hydro-lifter engines run smoother with less misfiring. The factory hydro cam was wimpy, to be sure, but that's a separate issue that can be fixed with a cam swap.

and thats how they were able to pass... i hyd lifter will hold a given lash...yes... but so will a mech... the mech cams were just bigger...

also people were getting into the whole just put gas/oil stage... adjusting valves was to much work...

 

[slantsixdan]

and thats how they were able to pass... i hyd lifter will hold a given lash...yes... but so will a mech... the mech cams were just bigger...

Sorry, no, your guess is wrong. My info comes directly from Chrysler's head engine engineer at the time. Facts trump guesses and assumptions. You can get the facts by reading his 3-volume History of Chrysler Corporation's Slant-Six Engine all by yourself. Chrysler Historical ought to be able to hook you up with a copy. Meanwhile, here's part of the relevant text:

 

[1970valiant]

Wow…that's a very ambitious, extensive, expensive first project to bite off all at once. It's all been done; people have turbocharged the slant-6 and have fuel-injected it, but it is in every case a very big undertaking even for those very experienced with engines in general and slant-6s in particular. What's your father's level of experience and knowledge? What's your funding look like?



That's a reasonable goal. Be advised you needn't necessarily turbocharge or fuel-inject the engine to achieve it. You don't need to risk your wallet with Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.

my dad knows a lot about cars, he has grown up working on them but hasent worked with a slant before. My pocket size is only about $900 right now. My dad has a friend that is being really generous and giving me a turbo and also would build the exhaust for free. It is a big project but also a great learning experience for me at the same time to.

i will go with doc's medium volume oil pump, the most likely the HEI ignition you where talking about, and we can keep the original pistons even tho it would be nice to upgrade to the forged ones and the K1 connecting rods so just a re-ring kit, and found this cam at summit http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K64-246-4/

 

[BillGrissom]

EFI is a great idea and would be a good learning experience, however no reason you can't wait on that until you are driving the car. If you go with a controller like Megasquirt you can modernize the ignition too, but requires a crank sensor. Many megasquirters use the Ford EDIS system. Ultimate solution would be the GM LS coils (1 per cylinder). A simple 5 V TTL signal triggers them.

Since you say you want "stoplight to stoplight" acceleration, you want low end torque. That means don't install a high lift cam, which are only good for max rpm screaming, and they idle like c--- (many people love that). Cam choices are very limited for a slant anyway. You will find the Slant has nice mid-range torque, due to the long intake runners. You should feel it start pulling strong ~2500 rpm, which helps when passing.

 

[805moparkid]

EFI is a great idea and would be a good learning experience, however no reason you can't wait on that until you are driving the car. If you go with a controller like Megasquirt you can modernize the ignition too, but requires a crank sensor. Many megasquirters use the Ford EDIS system. Ultimate solution would be the GM LS coils (1 per cylinder). A simple 5 V TTL signal triggers them.

Since you say you want "stoplight to stoplight" acceleration, you want low end torque. That means don't install a high lift cam, which are only good for max rpm screaming, and they idle like c--- (many people love that). Cam choices are very limited for a slant anyway. You will find the Slant has nice mid-range torque, due to the long intake runners. You should feel it start pulling strong ~2500 rpm, which helps when passing.

luration makes rpm... lift makes hp.... you can have high lift and lower duration and make great power/drivablity i.e. roller