Rebuilt 904 w/ tf2 shifting woes...

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DentalDart said:
He said their PR spring is stiffer than stock, which is why unless racing their spring flush with the bracket is how it should be adjusted.
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I'd still measure actual line pressure, because springs vary and so do pump and fluid and all kinds of things which can be different from one trans to the next.

DentalDart said:
He said "It sounds like your linkage is not at the correct 4'oclock position relative to the axis of rotation." Looking at my pictures and connection I think it is though. He also did not understand that with the lokar cable it pulls on the shifter lever instead of pushes on it. At first he told me there is no way it could pull the shifter lever...
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Hard to tell from your picture above, but it looks like the kickdown cable is closer to 6 o'clock than 4 o'clock? Might be the angle of the picture though.
 
Phreakish said:
I'd still measure actual line pressure, because springs vary and so do pump and fluid and all kinds of things which can be different from one trans to the next.

Ok... I will work on tracking down a pressure guage to measure it...

Hard to tell from your picture above, but it looks like the kickdown cable is closer to 6 o'clock than 4 o'clock? Might be the angle of the picture though.
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Ok... I will work on tracking down a pressure guage to measure it...

That's what I was thinking, that it looks closer to 6, but I have no clue where else it would need to be hooked up at, that is the spot on the carb for the KD cable attachment... He was saying that if it is at the 6, if it was moved to the correct 4 oclock position it shoud be better.
 
DentalDart said:
That's what I was thinking, that it looks closer to 6, but I have no clue where else it would need to be hooked up at, that is the spot on the carb for the KD cable attachment... He was saying that if it is at the 6, if it was moved to the correct 4 oclock position it shoud be better.
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Will take a different linkage. The carb link moves in a circle, so how well it 'pulls' the cable changes based on where it's connected. At 3 o'clock, the initial rotation will move the cable very little because that point on the linkage is mostly moving down toward the ground. If it was connected at 6 o'clock, then it pulls early but at the end of travel it's mostly moving up/down rather than fore/aft, so they're probably right. Having it connected at 4 o'clock will ensure you get the cable to move close to 1:1 with the throttle.

How long the lever is on the carb will change how quickly the cable gets pulled also...
 
Phreakish said:
Will take a different linkage. The carb link moves in a circle, so how well it 'pulls' the cable changes based on where it's connected. At 3 o'clock, the initial rotation will move the cable very little because that point on the linkage is mostly moving down toward the ground. If it was connected at 6 o'clock, then it pulls early but at the end of travel it's mostly moving up/down rather than fore/aft, so they're probably right. Having it connected at 4 o'clock will ensure you get the cable to move close to 1:1 with the throttle.

How long the lever is on the carb will change how quickly the cable gets pulled also...
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Yea that is how he was explaining it... I now will need to figure out how to change the connection.... somehow.
 
When in doubt; disconnect the trans linkage at the carb, and just tie the KD lever all the way back; then go for a ride. Until you internally adjust something, this will produce the absolute crispest/fastest/hardest shift, and at the highest rpm,that the trans is capable of delivering, in it's current set-up.Make sure you can feel the spring-resistance.
Oh yeah, wind it out some...
 
AJ/FormS said:
When in doubt; disconnect the trans linkage at the carb, and just tie the KD lever all the way back; then go for a ride. Until you internally adjust something, this will produce the absolute crispest/fastest/hardest shift, and at the highest rpm,that the trans is capable of delivering, in it's current set-up.Make sure you can feel the spring-resistance.
Oh yeah, wind it out some...
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Haha this sounds like a terrible and very exciting idea... I am not allowed to be replacing the transmission again this year though. She's probably ban me from FABO :rofl:
 
DentalDart said:
Haha this sounds like a terrible and very exciting idea... I am not allowed to be replacing the transmission again this year though. She's probably ban me from FABO :rofl:
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Actually, harder shifts are easier on the transmission.
U-joints though....
 
DentalDart said:
Haha this sounds like a terrible and very exciting idea... I am not allowed to be replacing the transmission again this year though. She's probably ban me from FABO :rofl:
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This will tell you if the current tune will satisfy you, It cannot hurt the trans. I have left mine like that for years. With a PT upshift, you can anticipate the shifts and lift-foot upshift, to send less torque thru the trans whenever you want to. I kindof like it.
Repeat, you cannot hurt the trans.
 
kursplat said:
well there's the problem :lol:

i didn't care for the Lokar kick down. never did get it to feel right. i was getting ready to just eat it and buy a new stock setup from A&A but decided i wanted a MVB anyway, so why bother.
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That’s why I went with the full mvb couldn’t get it right and was just frustrating with the crappy soft shifts . In saying that now with full control even with very light throttle 1-2 shifts are crisp but not neck snapping unless you get onto it .
 
str12-340 said:
So this has been mentioned before and rejected by DD, but it seems that the connection point for the throttle is closer to the pivot than the stock location provided by the adapter and that could lead to the geometry issue that Trans-Go pointed out
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I didnt dismiss it I merely stated I took it off and couldn't 100% remember why, but I understand what you are saying, I should have investigated the "why" further.

I looked back through pictures to see if I could remember why I didn't attach this and here is what I found.

Before I had the stock throttle cable, it attached to the back side of the long bolt (circled in red). The lokar kickdown is roughly right under it, but as noted probably closer to the 4' to 5' o'clock position.

Now I have the lokar throttle cable and its attached to the edelbrock carb slightly behind where it would be with the adapter and the lokar is slightly behind it but probably closer to the 5'-6' o'clock position. I think due to how the lokar throttle cable connects differently and me wanting to keep the cables more parallel in a straight line led me to attaching it this way.

So I will see about attaching the edelbrock adapter piece again and see if anything changes.

Thanks for pointing it out for me again :)

20201014_180615.jpg


Screenshot_20201014-172331_Gallery.jpg


Screenshot_20201014-175834_Gallery.jpg
 
str12-340 said:
So this has been mentioned before and rejected by DD, but it seems that the connection point for the throttle is closer to the pivot than the stock location provided by the adapter and that could lead to the geometry issue that Trans-Go pointed out
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I don't think he rejected it. DD has a way of gathering a lot of info, and then making a decision about it at some point. I like to say he's methodical ;)

I saw the post with the bracket, but didn't look back to see if it was the same one posted before or not. I can be lazy like that..
 
Phreakish said:
I don't think he rejected it. DD has a way of gathering a lot of info, and then making a decision about it at some point. I like to say he's methodical ;)

I saw the post with the bracket, but didn't look back to see if it was the same one posted before or not. I can be lazy like that..
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Well idk if its methodical or just not knowing much of anything and being bombarded with info that it takes time to do something. Plus I have to still go to skool and try to help around the house haha.
 
DentalDart said:
Well idk if its methodical or just not knowing much of anything and being bombarded with info that it takes time to do something. Plus I have to still go to skool and try to help around the house haha.
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You parse all that info and) instead of acting on the first suggestion. So I'll stick with methodical, LOL.

School and a project car are hard to mix. Even tougher with a family, but you seem to do a great job balancing it all which is awesome.

Now you just need to get used to driving more spirited so you can enjoy the coffee spiller mode!
 
Phreakish said:
You parse all that info and) instead of acting on the first suggestion. So I'll stick with methodical, LOL.

School and a project car are hard to mix. Even tougher with a family, but you seem to do a great job balancing it all which is awesome.

Now you just need to get used to driving more spirited so you can enjoy the coffee spiller mode!
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I agree... just want to make sure its functioning 100% properly so I don't break anything...
 
DentalDart said:
I agree... just want to make sure its functioning 100% properly so I don't break anything...
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I totally get that, but like AJ said: with the throttle pressure lever all the way back, you can't hurt the trans. Given the rest of your setup, you're not likely to hurt anything else either.
If something is messed up inside causing an issue, it's already too late to save it by babying it (but this is highly unlikely).
So let it all hang out and see what she does.. Just my opinion, worth the price paid for it ;)
 
I tell you what, I always have had the absolute best results using the factory Chrysler kick down linkage for any given application, than anything else......and I have tried the Lokar setup. At this point, if that thing was mine, I'd get the correct Chrysler hard linkage and put it on there. Then, that's one more thing to rule out. With the correct metal linkage, nothing can give, nothing can flex. You will have the correct travel and in the correct rate and arc. Damned if I would keep effin around with that Lokar bullshit. There's always "oh but you have to do this, oh but you have to do that". With the correct linkage, bolt it on, adjust it and go. Then, if you cannot get it right, you know DAMN WELL the problem is inside of the transmission instead of guessing for over 100 posts. Also, what the hell is "spooling"? I'm not bustin your chops here....it's a legitimate question. Nobody uses that terminology......well yeah if you want people to not know WFT you're talking about, you do. Is it slipping? Is it a delayed shift? WHAT EXACTLY does "spooling" mean. Using terminology like that will only serve to confuse those who are trying to help and make your ultimate successful fix even further down the road. I mean no disrespect, but you need to clear this up, IMO.
 
at this point, i'd wire the KD lever like AJ said and drive it for a few hundred miles. if your happy with it and still want a kick down, think about going to the stock style like RRR said. if you want to stay cable, maybe try the one Mancini sells. after using the Lokar, i'm not very impressed with it. i also noticed it added some binding to the throttle that was annoying
 
RustyRatRod said:
I tell you what, I always have had the absolute best results using the factory Chrysler kick down linkage for any given application, than anything else......and I have tried the Lokar setup. At this point, if that thing was mine, I'd get the correct Chrysler hard linkage and put it on there. Then, that's one more thing to rule out. With the correct metal linkage, nothing can give, nothing can flex. You will have the correct travel and in the correct rate and arc. Damned if I would keep effin around with that Lokar bullshit. There's always "oh but you have to do this, oh but you have to do that". With the correct linkage, bolt it on, adjust it and go. Then, if you cannot get it right, you know DAMN WELL the problem is inside of the transmission instead of guessing for over 100 posts. Also, what the hell is "spooling"? I'm not bustin your chops here....it's a legitimate question. Nobody uses that terminology......well yeah if you want people to not know WFT you're talking about, you do. Is it slipping? Is it a delayed shift? WHAT EXACTLY does "spooling" mean. Using terminology like that will only serve to confuse those who are trying to help and make your ultimate successful fix even further down the road. I mean no disrespect, but you need to clear this up, IMO.
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The car didn't have the stock kd linkage, I totally agree that it would probably be the better set up.

Spooling? Turbo cars spool when they are building boost. Like spooling at the staging line, you hear the turbo spooling or building boost then when you let off the brake when boost has been built and the car takes off. A delayed shift describes it too, I feel the car wanting to shift but instead of slamming into gear it feels like the transmission is "spooling/or winding up" while the engine is revving as well. Then it catches the gear and hard shifts.

My apologies for using terminology that may have been confusing for some.
 
Here is how the lokar cables are set up from the hotrod magazine... thats how I had mine...

20201015_102752.jpg
 
Adding the edelbrock throttle bracket puts the kd attachment at the same location just moves the throttle cable backwards.

20201015_103042.jpg


20201015_103032.jpg
 
AJ/FormS said:
When in doubt; disconnect the trans linkage at the carb, and just tie the KD lever all the way back; then go for a ride. Until you internally adjust something, this will produce the absolute crispest/fastest/hardest shift, and at the highest rpm,that the trans is capable of delivering, in it's current set-up.Make sure you can feel the spring-resistance.
Oh yeah, wind it out some...
Click to expand...

That's the best advice on here. What if your trans goes ahead and shifts early even after you've set it up like AJ says? Then you know you have an internal problem. You need to stop thinking that you're going to try some new thing and it's going to work. Begin by troubleshooting.
 
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