RHS flow data from today...

[dusterdoug]

Flow results from today on the RHS 2.02 head...

RHS LA-X

*First column is OOTB,
*2nd is with about .025 removed from the intake side of the chamber wall.
*3rd column is a real quick guide area trim.

INTAKE
Lift
0.100 68.9 73.3 71.6
0.150 101.4 107.2 104.9
0.200 131.8 138.3 136.8
0.250 160.6 163.3 164.3
0.300 185.7 187.4 190.1
0.350 207.4 207.7 210.4
0.400 225.3 224.3 227.4
0.450 238.9 236.5 240.3
0.500 248.5 245.3 250.3
0.550 252.2 248.3 255.5
0.600 255.3 258.8 258.2


EXHAUST (as cast, no changes) w/1.750" pipe

0.100 62.1
0.150 83.2
0.200 103.8
0.250 138.1
0.300 152.1
0.350 161.8
0.400 168.2
0.450 171.8
0.500 172.7
0.550 173.2
173.1

We were then wondering how other benches are reporting 270-ish and then it dawned on us: Flow them WITHOUT a spark plug...duh...

Peak with the 10 minutes worth of chamber touch up and guide smoothing, the intake went 273.8 @ .600, with turbulance right after .600, although they still went 269.4 @ .650...

Chambers measured 62.5

Pretty good bang for the buck, I'd say. The as supplied valve job was VERY conservative, leaving quite a bit of margin at the valve edge. We're going to spend about 8 more hours this week and rub on the guide areas some more and correct the VJ and we'll find more flow, I'm sure.

Looks like the short side of the exhaust can be laid back a touch, so we'll try that when the intakes are all done.

As they are, they SHOULD support a 525-550-ish HP motor. Again, pretty good head for the coin!

We won't get to the EQ's for another week, as we need to get valves and work schedules won't allow any more time until then.
Attached Images

 

[fishy68]

Interesting. I remember Brian from IMM posting the numbers he came up with and I'm pretty sure somebody asked him about the spark plug and he stated he did have a spark plug installed. I'm sure you probably know temp, humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc... all have an effect on the numbers. As well as what bench your using. I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with on the EQ's as I have a set I'm working over for a 408 I'm putting together (would already have it done if buddies would quit bugging me to do stuff for them, LOL).

 

[dusterdoug]

Interesting. I remember Brian from IMM posting the numbers he came up with and I'm pretty sure somebody asked him about the spark plug and he stated he did have a spark plug installed. I'm sure you probably know temp, humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc... all have an effect on the numbers. As well as what bench your using. I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with on the EQ's as I have a set I'm working over for a 408 I'm putting together (would already have it done if buddies would quit bugging me to do stuff for them, LOL).

Well, I didn't see that about the plug inh is thread, but that would bum me out. Or at least confuse me. Or at least make me think we have a VERY conservative bench. The bench we used though, as been within 1-1.5% of Holton's 600...and Don Little's 110. You're going to make me have a BIG brain ache now: It was very damp outside and we were in a garage with the door up....GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

 

[crackedback]

Nobody that's competent would ever state numbers and fail to say they did it without a spark plug. Besides the fact, flowing without a plug is pretty stupid.

Those heads don't need much to go the 265-270's. A 2.02 valve, little seat blend and a good valve job and you're there.

The hughes bench is pretty happy compared to the other two benches of people I know that work on heads.

 

[fishy68]

Well, I didn't see that about the plug inh is thread, but that would bum me out. Or at least confuse me. Or at least make me think we have a VERY conservative bench. The bench we used though, as been within 1-1.5% of Holton's 600...and Don Little's 110. You're going to make me have a BIG brain ache now: It was very damp outside and we were in a garage with the door up....GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

I won't swear to it. I just think I remember seeing it (the part about the plug) posted in there. With my old farts memory syndrome I might be wrong. LOL

BTW: is there really much difference in the port and chamber design of the EQ's vs. the RHS heads? In the pics they look nearly identical but you know how trying to pick out differences in pics on the net is. Only way to really tell is compare them side by side.

 

[dusterdoug]

I won't swear to it. I just think I remember seeing it (the part about the plug) posted in there. With my old farts memory syndrome I might be wrong. LOL

BTW: is there really much difference in the port and chamber design of the EQ's vs. the RHS heads? In the pics they look nearly identical but you know how trying to pick out differences in pics on the net is. Only way to really tell is compare them side by side.

The chambers are nearly identical in viewing, although we haven't cc'd the EQ's yet. The other interesting observation is that the intake and exhaust port openings are VERY, VERY close to the same dimensions. We're gonna cc the ports of the EQ's when it's their turn, as we can find nothing posted in that regard...

 

[Badart]

Subscribed. :cheers:

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Yes we always flow with a plug in the head...I always wipe my *** with TP after shitting too. Pretty common sense don't ya think??

 

[lead69]

If you actually read the post by ou812 you would have saw the fact they do a valve job and blend the bowl which could account for the extra flow.Disregarding this fact anybody familiar with a flow bench knows no two are exactly the same,their are alot of variables.Its not very professional to make a comment such as yours on a public forum even if its not directed specificly at one person,its even worse when you dont have or choose not to state the facts.

 

[fishy68]

The chambers are nearly identical in viewing, although we haven't cc'd the EQ's yet. The other interesting observation is that the intake and exhaust port openings are VERY, VERY close to the same dimensions. We're gonna cc the ports of the EQ's when it's their turn, as we can find nothing posted in that regard...

I cc'd the chambers and intake ports. Didn't do the exhaust port yet. The chambers were 62 cc's. The intake's were 176 cc's. If I remember right that's right at what their advertised at.

 

[dusterdoug]

If you actually read the post by ou812 you would have saw the fact they do a valve job and blend the bowl which could account for the extra flow.Disregarding this fact anybody familiar with a flow bench knows no two are exactly the same,their are alot of variables.Its not very professional to make a comment such as yours on a public forum even if its not directed specificly at one person,its even worse when you dont have or choose not to state the facts.

WTF?? Guess what? I DID read the post by Brian. I presented the facts I have: what our bench read. Guess what else wise-***? these heads were bought (from someone other than Brian) with a 2.02 valve, a VJ and a "blend". You should READ my post; I said CLEARLY the vj was very conservative and I'm SURE there is to be flow gained there. There are many versions of a "valve job". My comment about the plug in the chamber was me pointing out that was the only way WE got 273. I guess I should have made it simpler for YOU to understand. No two bences are the same? No ****, Sherlock. Changes in air density will also effect flow numbers, maybe I should have clarified the weather conditions also.

I didn't start this to bash ANYONE, or question their work. I was stating facts as I saw them today. See, I like to SHARE information. Especially where I know very little. Wish I were you since you know so much...

 

[crackedback]

We were then wondering how other benches are reporting 270-ish and then it dawned on us: Flow them WITHOUT a spark plug...duh...

Well, I didn't see that about the plug inh is thread, but that would bum me out. Or at least confuse me.

If you didn't mean to drive that bus over the cliff you sure gave good direction on how to get there. It looked like a pretty clear insinuation that someone wasn't being truthful.

Whether you meant to or not, it read to me, the same way as Lead69 got it. I've seen people report 300cfm numbers from these heads, that's the group that needs questioning.

Memebers on the other board took it the same way, so there are more than the vocal folks on these two boards that thought it was bush league whether intended or not.

Work the heads and report your progess. Your numbers after the blending touch up are pretty similar to Brians #'s. 8)

Want to question a set of numbers, go look at the ones hughes provides with the 1.92 RHS and then the SuperPrepped 2.02 RHS... those are good for some interesting head scratching.

 

[dusterdoug]

Yes we always flow with a plug in the head...I always wipe my *** with TP after shitting too. Pretty common sense don't ya think??

I wouldn't have related wiping your *** to this thread, quite honestly. We pulled the plug and got 273 and I was HOPING we found the answer to our dilemma. We were trying to find the logic of us not being anywhere close to your numbers, as we didn't think your bench was that generous in the first place. We weren't looking to find fault with your stuff, but even though they were from another vendor I was hoping to be closer than we were.

 

[dusterdoug]

If you didn't mean to drive that bus over the cliff you sure gave good direction on how to get there. It looked like a pretty clear insinuation that someone wasn't being truthful.

Whether you meant to or not, it read to me, the same way as Lead69 got it. I've seen people report 300cfm numbers from these heads, that's the group that needs questioning.

Memebers on the other board took it the same way, so there are more than the vocal folks on these two boards that thought it was bush league whether intended or not.

Work the heads and report your progess. Your numbers after the blending touch up are pretty similar to Brians #'s. 8)

Want to question a set of numbers, go look at the ones hughes provides with the 1.92 RHS and then the SuperPrepped 2.02 RHS... those are good for some interesting head scratching.

Okay, maybe this will read better: "I've seen FOUR differnet shops in different areas of the country report 270-ish out of these heads, including the guy we got the heads from. But the only way we got 273, was a slight de-shrouding of the chamber and a quick guide trimming...AND without the plug. There must be something wrong with our bench, as it doesn't agree with anyone else's".

I'm done. Sorry if I offened anyone, that wasn't the case. I wasn't IMPLYING anything about anyone. I just come here to share info and learn, not stir up ****, but sometimes I guess that's not possible.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Okay, maybe this will read better: "I've seen FOUR differnet shops in different areas of the country report 270-ish out of these heads, including the guy we got the heads from. But the only way we got 273, was a slight de-shrouding of the chamber and a quick guide trimming...AND without the plug. There must be something wrong with our bench, as it doesn't agree with anyone else's".

I'm done. Sorry if I offened anyone, that wasn't the case. I wasn't IMPLYING anything about anyone. I just come here to share info and learn, not stir up ****, but sometimes I guess that's not possible.

Look, by saying "We were then wondering how other benches are reporting 270-ish and then it dawned on us: Flow them WITHOUT a spark plug...duh..." you are implying that others are not flowing the heads properly or even fudging #'s. I don't take offense, because you didn't get them from me. Infact on Moparts I tried to give you some insight on what we do and maybe something you did was wrong?
I wasn't trying to compare this thread with wiping my ***....I was showing that to flow a head without a plug....would be about as stupid as not wiping your *** after you crap. That's all. In other words....the test is invalid and a waste of time and not worth anything.
I thought you would have liked my sense of humor....LOL!

 

[lead69]

WTF?? Guess what? I DID read the post by Brian. I presented the facts I have: what our bench read. Guess what else wise-***? these heads were bought (from someone other than Brian) with a 2.02 valve, a VJ and a "blend". You should READ my post; I said CLEARLY the vj was very conservative and I'm SURE there is to be flow gained there. There are many versions of a "valve job". My comment about the plug in the chamber was me pointing out that was the only way WE got 273. I guess I should have made it simpler for YOU to understand. No two bences are the same? No ****, Sherlock. Chanages in air density will also effect flow numbers, maybe I should have clarified the weather conditions also.

I didn't start this to bash ANYONE, or question their work. I was stating facts as I saw them today. See, I like to SHARE information. Especially where I know very little. Wish I were you since you know so much...

Sorry you took offense to me trying to educate you about professionalism on a public forum,dont feel bad though you are not alone in lacking it.As for someone who doesnt want to stir the pot you shure throw around the insults,maybe you are a nice guy but you just type like a dickhead?.Ive had no experience with Brian or any other builder on the forum since I have a local guy do my machining and I do all my own port work and flow testing.I guess to make it simpler for you theres a courteous and professional demeanor thats lacking in your post and therfore makes it seem you are demeaning others to look good and thus makes you come across as an ***.

 

[dusterdoug]

Look, by saying "We were then wondering how other benches are reporting 270-ish and then it dawned on us: Flow them WITHOUT a spark plug...duh..." you are implying that others are not flowing the heads properly or even fudging #'s. I don't take offense, because you didn't get them from me. Infact on Moparts I tried to give you some insight on what we do and maybe something you did was wrong?
I wasn't trying to compare this thread with wiping my ***....I was showing that to flow a head without a plug....would be about as stupid as not wiping your *** after you crap. That's all. In other words....the test is invalid and a waste of time and not worth anything.
I thought you would have liked my sense of humor....LOL!

All we did was flow the heads. But we were probably wrong about something we did. Have a nice night everyone...
...you, too lead69!

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Who did you get the heads from?

 

[Brian Hafliger]

And you can clearly see I'm not pointing the finger at you and saying you ARE doing something wrong...I'm just wondering if there's something wrong with the valve job or maybe the valve?
These ports are super fast...I have to shape the clay for a while to set the air up properly or otherwise the ports won't flow any air.
Or you can bolt a manifold on...but that changes everything!!

 

[dusterdoug]

Who did you get the heads from?

Just for the record, I'd rather not say. If I got all this crap from NOT naming names, can you imagine the fallout if I did?

 

[dusterdoug]

And you can clearly see I'm not pointing the finger at you and saying you ARE doing something wrong...I'm just wondering if there's something wrong with the valve job or maybe the valve?
These ports are super fast...I have to shape the clay for a while to set the air up properly or otherwise the ports won't flow any air.
Or you can bolt a manifold on...but that changes everything!!

Yes, I am CONFIDENT the vj is a part of the problem. In hindsight, we should have corrected that first.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Just for the record, I'd rather not say. If I got all this crap from NOT naming names, can you imagine the fallout if I did?

LOL...OK. I was just curious as there aren't too many places selling them (that I know of anyway).
You could send one head you've flowed down to me and I would be happy to flow it for you so then we would know how our bench's relate.
I did this with Brodix and their bench was some 10-12 cfm higher than ours at mid-high lift.
Funny thing was their ex. numbers were almost dead on with mine...

 

[moper]

So much is involved with a good valve job that I wouldnt think either set of numbers is out of range, especially considering the benches, operators, and brand of toilet paper that can vary the result... As they are shipped bare, the "ootb" is not possible to flow. So there is no OOTB possible. So "your results may vary" and racing flow bench results on these heads is a complete waste of time.

 

[JoeDust451]

I will say i got mine from hughes, they are "stock", i was told they flow 241ish, thats lower then what was mentioned in this thread in "stock" form, then it was mentioned the chambers were 62cc, that again i was told when i bought them, others were saying more like 67cc OOTB, i feel my $$$ were well spent for these heads for the 875.00, for what Brians doing to them is well worth his price too, i'm sure they can go 280-290 with more work, either way, i am VERY pleased with the results on my 360 magnum, even with a very mild cam & a high mild stock bottom end, its runs fantastic, & the power is there, i could only amazin how it would perform with alittle head work & a good cam.

 

[dusterdoug]

So much is involved with a good valve job that I wouldnt think either set of numbers is out of range, especially considering the benches, operators, and brand of toilet paper that can vary the result... As they are shipped bare, the "ootb" is not possible to flow. So there is no OOTB possible. So "your results may vary" and racing flow bench results on these heads is a complete waste of time.

Yea, but it makes entertaining reading!! All good points moper. You should have chimed in Sat night to give this thread a dose of common sense...LOL!

UPDATE: we went to the other head (as supplied) and did nothing but correct the valve job:

262.1 @ .500
263.3 @ .550
263.8 @ .600

THAT'S more like what I expected to see, "as supplied". And to think, all of this could have been avoided IF we had just corrected the vj FIRST...