SCCA Prepared C FABO Build

[Badart]

I consider this a FABO team build, because there is so much info here from our great members you guys are always willing to help out. I am super stoked about this (I can't recall the last time I was this excited about a build). I have a couple of sponsers lined up to help with labor and other things, but this will be all me as far as the build goes.

Most of you know me here and my 65 Barracuda that I have been working on. Well plans change and the racing bug has bitten me good this time. Instead of getting this car back on the road and getting it tagged and licensed I will now want to make it a strickly Autocross car. I mean a balls out super competitive prepared C car for at least the regional level. Many guys at the national level are running 700 hp small blocks turning 9k. I know that I will never hit that goal unless I win the lottery, but I am going to give it a shot and hopefully over the next couple of years I can run with them.

There are many rules with this level, but at the same time they are left open for the imagination. I am still researching many of them and have been talking to a couple of competitive racers. One of them lives about 1 hour from me and drives a 68 Camaro that is competitive at the national level. 550 hp 350, brodix heads, big roller, 10 slicks all around and coilovers all around. I am going to look at his car tomorrow and will bring my camera and take many notes. Super cool guy and is very helpful. I will post pics of his car over the next couple of days.

The engine must not be an alternate stroke angle and no power adders other than race gas. I will be using a .030" over 360 LA block with KB107's zero decked to start out with. Heads are getting sent to our very own wild&crazyguy aka Justin, so he can get them to flow. He is also talking to his buddy at Engle Cams to come up with a solid lifter cam that will work for my needs. I know I am good hands.
Most guys are using 350's and 351 clevelands in the Brand X and Mudstains. LOL I will be racing in the 3,000lb class, so the side windows and regulators are gone, lexan windshield and heavy rear glass. Gutted and I mean gutted. Full at least a 10 point cage will be going in over the next week or so. It's funny because cages are optional in this class, but when you are talking about this much power and torque through the body I think it will be a must. Weight will be added under the body just in front of the rear axle to hit the 3,000 lb mark. This is to get 50-50 weight ditribution keep the weight as low as possible.

This is the closest thing to Trans Am or Historic racing that I can afford to do. There is no fender banging, just getting your car through the course as fast as possible without hitting cones.

BTW here is what I am starting with 65 Barracuda Hipo 273 with a 904. Very solid other than the passenger floor pan and rear quarters.

 

[Abodybomber]

Love watching the early stuff compete with the new stuff.Best of luck.At least the chassis manufacturer knows what he's doing.

 

[1970Duster]

Roller block you're using right? If your not limited in tire size, run as big of a rear kick as you fit, same with the front. You're switching over to a manual tranny correct? Disc brake upgrade will be a must, depending on the level rear as well.

 

[Badart]

Love watching the early stuff compete with the new stuff.Best of luck.At least the chassis manufacturer knows what he's doing.

This will be a learning experience that's for sure. I plan on throwing a lot of parts at this thing really quick. I want to have it done by March for MATS. Paint and body can come later.

Roller block you're using right? If your not limited in tire size, run as big of a rear kick as you fit, same with the front. You're switching over to a manual tranny correct? Disc brake upgrade will be a must, depending on the level rear as well.

You can run up to a 16x10 wheel before a weight penality. Most guys run a 12" wheel in the rear. As you can see my rear fenders have been flaired a little already and I will do mini tubs, but I don't think I can move the frame rails. Most of the time you are in second gear and there is a rolling start before you trip the timing beam, so I am running parts that I have right now, 904 with cheetah valve body, stock converter for engine braking and 3.89 gear with Detroit locker. The 4 speed will come later. I'm not going roller, just a flat solid lifter for now. Justin is having a custom grind built for my combo and altitude. I need grunt down low for coming out of a corner and good midrange.

The brakes will be 4 wheel disc with a wilwood master. On the front for the time being I am going to 11.75 Cordoba drilled and slotted rotors with Wilwood Dynalite calipers. The rear is a 9" with disc brakes. There will be improvements that I will make down the road to everything, but this is what I have on hand right now.

 

[Badart]

A few pics so you can see what I have been doing. Reinforcing the K frame and getting it ready for the coilover conversion.

I installed the coilover hoops when I thought it was going to be a street car. For the time being I will leave them in, but may cut them out later, because the cage will tie into the upper shock mounts.

 

[Badart]

Here is the short block and heads. Like I said before the heads are boxed up and heading to Justin so he can do his thing.

I had some help gutting the car. He works for food and a roof over his head and a little candy helps too. The window regulators and glass is out. I bet I pulled out 400lbs of stuff while gutting it so far.

I have some patching to do on the passenger floor pan and the drivers side needs a patch too. I have one that I cut out of a 66 model a couple of years ago. I am not allowed to alter the floor height of the car and must keep the same basic shape, but I am allowed to do frame connecters through the floor and that is what I will do. The dash is coming out next.

 

[Badart]

The rear suspension is going to be something that I haven't seen on here before. A three link with a panhard bar.

 

[GMachineDartGT]

thats an old picture of the XV Challenger. One huge problem if you look closely. The third link is welded to the floor! Wasn't long before the floor ripped open. - typical of XV's NON engineered stuff....

 

[Badart]

thats an old picture of the XV Challenger. One huge problem if you look closely. The third link is welded to the floor! Wasn't long before the floor ripped open. - typical of XV's NON engineered stuff....

Scary stuff I can't believe someone would weld that to the floor pan. That's why I like the the top picture, it's tied into the loop and at least the frame rails. Mine will come down from the cage and tie into the crossmember and the loop. It also looks like the top pic is running a watts link.

 

[73SwingerBuild]

Subscribed. Very anxious to see how this comes out.

 

[OldmanRick]

Thanks for doing this thread.:thumbrig: It's gonna be very imformative for many of us.

 

[mopardude318]

this is awesome! wish i could help.

 

[DionR]

Just a thought, but I think your steering idler is going to be a weak link. I'd find some way to go to a thru-bolt idler (68 and up) if I were you.

Either weld a different mount on, or go all the way and section a later k-frame (I've done it, so it's possible) and relocate the motor mounts. The added advantages of the later k-frame having a better swaybar mount and motor mounts don't hurt either. A new mount would be the easiest way, though.

 

[Badart]

Just a thought, but I think your steering idler is going to be a weak link. I'd find some way to go to a thru-bolt idler (68 and up) if I were you.

Either weld a different mount on, or go all the way and section a later k-frame (I've done it, so it's possible) and relocate the motor mounts. The added advantages of the later k-frame having a better swaybar mount and motor mounts don't hurt either. A new mount would be the easiest way, though.

I have thought about the idler mount on the K member too. I will be taking a look at it in the near future.

 

[gtmopar]

Ill take a pic of my sway bar mount to give you some ideas on my 65 dart. It works real well.

 

[Badart]

Ill take a pic of my sway bar mount to give you some ideas on my 65 dart. It works real well.

That would be great. I was just going to put mine in my tubing bender.

 

[Badart]

I went and met another racer in my class last night. Super nice guy that wouldn't let me leave. LOL He runs a 68 camaro, 350, dry sump oiling, 13.1 compression, claims 550 hp and 500 lbft torque. 3 link in the rear with a funky link panhard bar combo. Not a big fan because if you notice the steep angle of the bar on the right that is attached solid to the frame rails, when the squats it wants to push the rear to the left.
He is kind of old school. I really don't know what to say about his spring pressures either. In the rear he runs 400lb springs which is not to crazy, because he doesn't run a sway bar in the rear, but in the front they are 1,350lb springs and I am not kidding. I made him show me the numbers on them. He says there in no body roll at all, no kidding. The front suspension was hard as a rock. To me there is no suspension with a spring that heavy and it can't even work. I did however get some ideas from him and and made a new friend. I asked him how serious of a racer he is and how competitive his car is and he just stated that he just goes out to have fun. Here are some pics.

 

[Badart]

I picked up this in a parts trade yesterday. It measures 58" it should work great and I don't have to narrow another housing and buy new axles.

 

[Mad Dart]

Cool, can't wait to see your car morph! Cool picture of your Boy!

 

[DionR]

Read a huge blog on an early camaro build once where the guy went into a bunch of science on how to get it to handle well with the stock suspension. Came down to the fact that the geometry is just junk and he had to run 2000# (IIRC) springs to get what he wanted.

Warning! Rant to follow:

Was reading a recent Popular Hot Rodding last night (article about '76 cars to build) and they said "Mopar guys are notoriously apathetic to handling, it's all about drag racing for them" when they talked about a '76 F-Body and how to update it. Really pissed me off. For one I suspect they don't hang out with any Moapr guys, so how do they know. Secondly, I suspect that they say this because most Mopar guys aren't willing to spend $3000 or more on a custom front suspension to get them to handle, thus they don't care about handling. Maybe, instead, it's because the front suspension of a Mopar doesn't need a complete redesign like the fabled crapmaro, so it flies under their radar that there are Mopar guys that like to turn corners. Makes my blood boil!

Sorry. Rant off.

 

[1970Duster]

I picked up this in a parts trade yesterday. It measures 58" it should work great and I don't have to narrow another housing and buy new axles.

You sure that's a 9"? Based off the pic, that looks more like an 8" (could just be the angle of the picture is throwing me off).

 

[Badart]

You sure that's a 9"? Based off the pic, that looks more like an 8" (could just be the angle of the picture is throwing me off).

It's a 9", it must be the angle of the picture. I traded a couple of old steel wheels and tires for it.

 

[Badart]

Read a huge blog on an early camaro build once where the guy went into a bunch of science on how to get it to handle well with the stock suspension. Came down to the fact that the geometry is just junk and he had to run 2000# (IIRC) springs to get what he wanted.

Warning! Rant to follow:

Was reading a recent Popular Hot Rodding last night (article about '76 cars to build) and they said "Mopar guys are notoriously apathetic to handling, it's all about drag racing for them" when they talked about a '76 F-Body and how to update it. Really pissed me off. For one I suspect they don't hang out with any Moapr guys, so how do they know. Secondly, I suspect that they say this because most Mopar guys aren't willing to spend $3000 or more on a custom front suspension to get them to handle, thus they don't care about handling. Maybe, instead, it's because the front suspension of a Mopar doesn't need a complete redesign like the fabled crapmaro, so it flies under their radar that there are Mopar guys that like to turn corners. Makes my blood boil!

Sorry. Rant off.

According to this guy he had a problem getting any positive caster even with a ton of shims behind the pivot and aftermarket upper control arms.

 

[DionR]

Found the blog, if you're interested. Scroll down to the second post on the 21st in the link (November 2010), about half way down. He talks about why early camaro's are slow on the autocross, starting with the nut behind the wheel and then talking about the problems with the OEM suspension.

Seems he settled on a 500# wheel rate, and to get that he needed 1582# springs. Because of the spring location, it makes it really hard to get the rates he needs, and makes shock tuning a real bear.

Not really related to your project. Sorry about the rabbit trail.

 

[Badart]

Found the blog, if you're interested. Scroll down to the second post on the 21st in the link (November 2010), about half way down. He talks about why early camaro's are slow on the autocross, starting with the nut behind the wheel and then talking about the problems with the OEM suspension.

Seems he settled on a 500# wheel rate, and to get that he needed 1582# springs. Because of the spring location, it makes it really hard to get the rates he needs, and makes shock tuning a real bear.

Not really related to your project. Sorry about the rabbit trail.

No problem at all. Thanks for the link. I will look through it later. I ordered these parts today. I need the seat so I can mock it up to work with the main hoop on my cage. The fuel cell is 8 gallons and should be able to race all day with that. Speedway has $7.99 shipping right now. It saved me about $60 shipping.