Slant six dies in gear

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Hey all, I’m new to this forum but my 1976 Plymouth duster restoration project has been having issues for the last few months and I’m getting desperate. I’m 18 years old and a first year heavy duty mechanic in college so I rely on her as my daily driver. Over the last few months she’s been having some overheating issues which resulted in me replacing the water pump, rad, thermostat etc to solve the problem. Just as I solved one issue another arose. I have a late 60’s slant six with the original transmission for my car (custom torque converter to make it work) and lately it’s been idling great in park and neutral but as soon as I go into drive or reverse the engine idle goes way down and dies. I feel it is worth noting that I have been running this engine and trans combo for just under two years with no issues. I currently have the rpm set at 950 rpm and 18 degrees. I’ve tried a new distributor as well as looked for vacuum and trans leaks. Have a new carb coming tomorrow but wanted to see if anyone else had any ideas.

Thanks in advance!

IMG_5549.jpeg
 
Is that a lockup style converter? If so, could be locking up prematurely. Just a wild guess! Even if not, still could possibly be a transmission problem.
 
Is that a lockup style converter? If so, could be locking up prematurely. Just a wild guess! Even if not, still could possibly be a transmission problem.
It is a lockup yes, just installed a few days ago. Wasn’t aware of the block and tranny age difference until I dropped the tranny and realized the new torque converter and the one for 1976 I ordered were different. Had to have one custom fabricated locally. Was thinking it could be a tranny issue just unsure as to what. The tranny fluid is brand new, as well as the filter and has recently had a band adjustment as well.
 
Loose timing chain??
Timing chain is just a couple weeks old, seems to be doing fine. Only thing I could think of myself is a my distributor. When I ordered it in and installed it it didn’t work so I rebuilt it at home and it’s seemed to do okay. Wondering if something went wrong when I rebuilt it
 
The early lockup converters were hydraulic. They could sometimes even stay locked up as you were slowing to a stop. I had one in a Duster many years ago. The trans sometimes had to be shifted into neutral at stop lights to keep from stalling. Later lockup converters were electrically engaged and disengaged.
 
Hey all, I’m new to this forum but my 1976 Plymouth duster restoration project has been having issues for the last few months and I’m getting desperate. I’m 18 years old and a first year heavy duty mechanic in college so I rely on her as my daily driver. Over the last few months she’s been having some overheating issues which resulted in me replacing the water pump, rad, thermostat etc to solve the problem. Just as I solved one issue another arose. I have a late 60’s slant six with the original transmission for my car (custom torque converter to make it work) and lately it’s been idling great in park and neutral but as soon as I go into drive or reverse the engine idle goes way down and dies. I feel it is worth noting that I have been running this engine and trans combo for just under two years with no issues. I currently have the rpm set at 950 rpm and 18 degrees. I’ve tried a new distributor as well as looked for vacuum and trans leaks. Have a new carb coming tomorrow but wanted to see if anyone else had any ideas.

Thanks in advance!

View attachment 1716131537


Timing chain is just a couple weeks old, seems to be doing fine. Only thing I could think of myself is a my distributor. When I ordered it in and installed it it didn’t work so I rebuilt it at home and it’s seemed to do okay. Wondering if something went wrong when I rebuilt it


If the stalling in gear issue began after you rebuilt the distributor, then I would look there... Maybe something is not right with the distributor....

We have a member here that's a whiz with rebuilding distributors, you may want to get his advice, or have him go through your distributor, he does good work... @halifaxhops
 
If the stalling in gear issue began after you rebuilt the distributor, then I would look there... Maybe something is not right with the distributor....

We have a member here that's a whiz with rebuilding distributors, you may want to get his advice, or have him go through your distributor, he does good work... @halifaxhops
Thanks I’ll look into it! Wish I came on here sooner
 
Do you have a vacuum gauge? I'm guessing you might have a vacuum leak. You can pick up a cheap one at harbor freight.

950rpm is pretty high at idle. I think the factory setting is closer to 750rpm in park and should idle around 550-600rpm in gear. If the engine stumbles and wants to die when you idle it lower than 950rpm in park, that's a pretty good indication that you have a vacuum leak as long as the engine is warmed up and the choke is open.
 
My guess is that your transfer-slot is as good as closed. Increase your rpm 150 rpm then retard the timing until the rpm drops to about 600, or the timing is no less than 5*. reset your mixture screws as may be required.
If that don't get it, reset you valve lash .003 looser on the intake, .006 looser on the exhaust, to a maximum of .013int/.023ex; hot to warm, but not cold.
If that don't get it, jack the rear wheels off the ground, put the trans in Neutral, and try again. If the rear wheels turn, start dragging the brakes. If the engine slows considerably or stalls, BadaBoom! the trans/TC has to come down.

This assumes the following:
1) as to the air intake;
the PCV system is working properly
The brake booster system is not sucking air
the intake has NO vacuum leaks
anything connected to the intake is functioning correctly
the valves seal nicely, and are correctly lashed

2) As to the fuel system:
The Wet fuel-level is correct
the fuel pressure is 4.5 psi or less
The choke is OFF,
the mixture screws are in range
the Air-bleeds are clear
the fuel is fresh and NOT contaminated

3) As to other:
The VA is plumbed to the sparkport
the engine is up to temp
the convertor is functioning correctly
the trans clutches are fully released
The pistons/rings are not tight
the A/C system is not overcharged, and the clutch is releasing,

Ok so that's all I can think of.
 
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Timing chain is just a couple weeks old, seems to be doing fine. Only thing I could think of myself is a my distributor. When I ordered it in and installed it it didn’t work so I rebuilt it at home and it’s seemed to do okay. Wondering if something went wrong when I rebuilt it
Where is your initial timing set? If it is not advanced enough after it was reinstalled from the rebuild, that certainly could make it stall when dropped into gear.
 
Congrats on joining a great hobby!

950 rpm idle & 18* of initial timing suggests that the cam is bigger than stock. If so, this presents a new set of problems with carb tuning & idle timing that will need sorting out.

So more info/history on the engine & internal parts would be helpful.
 
Congrats on joining a great hobby!

950 rpm idle & 18* of initial timing suggests that the cam is bigger than stock. If so, this presents a new set of problems with carb tuning & idle timing that will need sorting out.

So more info/history on the engine & internal parts would be helpful.
As far as I know the cam is stock to the block. For reference on timing and temperature I’ve been using a slant six automotive book my step father had (he’s a heavy duty mechanic who’s restored tons of mopars). We know is older and definitely warm and even looked at replacing it a few months back when I replaced the head (leak between cylinders caused a cooling issue) but in a college students budget some stuff had to wait.
 
Try and sort things out logically. When did the problem first start? What changed just before the problem? Pictures of the engine and carb? Nice looking car.
 
Try and sort things out logically. When did the problem first start? What changed just before the problem? Pictures of the engine and carb? Nice looking car.
Will post some pics a little later. First noticed a starting issue about 4 months back right before my coil died. Replaced that and still had ignition issues. After replacing all resistors, wires, ignitions switch etc it started first try. Then came an overheating issue. I live out of town and after about 20 minutes of highway speeds 60 mph/ 100km. The coolant would bubble and overflow into the overflow reservoir. I have a rad cap that has a temp gauge on it and that as well as a temp gun read 290 degrees. Once that was discovered I started replacing things. I started with the cheapest things, (college budget) thermostat, then water pump, rad fan, rad itself. It’s also worth noting that the car would overheat even at an idle so I looked into the distributor. I ordered one and discovered it had a crooked shaft (rebuilt part) as I’m out of town and takes a long time for me to get parts I rebuilt it myself using good parts from my old distributor. It’s seemed to fix majority of the issue but the car was still overheating. After getting desperate I decided to pull the head. This is where I discovered a leak between cylinders 1 and 2. Made the choice to replace the head instead of rebore it. It was pretty far gone. As that was out I figure I’d replace the timing chain as well. Once those were in I tried starting it and no dice. After a couple weeks of no start and me messing with valves and timing I got it going with no overheating issues. Thank god lol. Although this is when it was discovered that the idle likes to die when you go from P or N to gear. Even 1st or 2nd. As I am a college student and it is my daily I have still currently driving it. So long as you hold the gas slightly to keep gas flowing it won’t turn off at lights and such. The worst of it is trying to get it going after a night of being parked. Sometimes take 6-7 tries. Even if I’m slow on the gas or even have my foot on the gas and shift from N to D at the same time.
 
I’ve been using a slant six automotive book my step father had (he’s a heavy duty mechanic who’s restored tons of mopars).


I recommend using a factory service manual for reference... You can download them for free from this site...

Service Manuals – MyMopar

Get one close to the make and year of your car... It doesn't hurt to get the comparable Dodge, Plymouth, and Chrysler manuals for the year of your car for comparison...
 
How does the car respond to throttle in all other driving scenarios? Does it make good power? Does it cruise smooth? Does it take full throttle without coughing or backfiring? Figuring out if you have a cam timing, ignition timing, or just a carb tuning problem over the internet can be tough.
 
Without an accurate description of initial timing, it will be difficult to rule that out.
 
How does the car respond to throttle in all other driving scenarios? Does it make good power? Does it cruise smooth? Does it take full throttle without coughing or backfiring? Figuring out if you have a cam timing, ignition timing, or just a carb tuning problem over the internet can be tough.
Highway and town cruising are excellent, tons of power, cruises smooth. Drives like a dream. Just the initial get go from P to D and getting going at lights. Little bit of initial hesitation when you first hit the throttle from a dead stop which is why I initially thought it was a crab problem.
 
It does sound to me like a tuning issue. The carb may be perfectly fine you just need to make it do what you want it to do. Do you have a vacuum gauge?
 
Will post some pics a little later. First noticed a starting issue about 4 months back right before my coil died. Replaced that and still had ignition issues. After replacing all resistors, wires, ignitions switch etc it started first try. Then came an overheating issue. I live out of town and after about 20 minutes of highway speeds 60 mph/ 100km. The coolant would bubble and overflow into the overflow reservoir. I have a rad cap that has a temp gauge on it and that as well as a temp gun read 290 degrees. Once that was discovered I started replacing things. I started with the cheapest things, (college budget) thermostat, then water pump, rad fan, rad itself. It’s also worth noting that the car would overheat even at an idle so I looked into the distributor. I ordered one and discovered it had a crooked shaft (rebuilt part) as I’m out of town and takes a long time for me to get parts I rebuilt it myself using good parts from my old distributor. It’s seemed to fix majority of the issue but the car was still overheating. After getting desperate I decided to pull the head. This is where I discovered a leak between cylinders 1 and 2. Made the choice to replace the head instead of rebore it. It was pretty far gone. As that was out I figure I’d replace the timing chain as well. Once those were in I tried starting it and no dice. After a couple weeks of no start and me messing with valves and timing I got it going with no overheating issues. Thank god lol. Although this is when it was discovered that the idle likes to die when you go from P or N to gear. Even 1st or 2nd. As I am a college student and it is my daily I have still currently driving it. So long as you hold the gas slightly to keep gas flowing it won’t turn off at lights and such. The worst of it is trying to get it going after a night of being parked. Sometimes take 6-7 tries. Even if I’m slow on the gas or even have my foot on the gas and shift from N to D at the same time.

So the problem started after the head and timing chain was replaced. Sounds like a combination of carb (and choke) and ignition. Do you have electronic ignition? Does your distributor have vacuum advance? Have you tried to rebuild the carb? Check choke to see that it is closed when cold and open when at opperating temperature. Assuming a 225, I'd start from the 1975 tune up guide, set timing to TDC and idle to 750 in neutral at opperating temperature. Plug all vacuum taps at the carb. This is an iterative process.
1. Adjust idle screws for highest vacuum and rpm.
2. Check timing with vacuum advance plugged at the carb.
3. Set timing.
Then back to step 1 and repeat till it all lines up.
Set fast idle to spec on the highest point on the cam for when the choke is closed.
 
I recommend using a factory service manual for reference... You can download them for free from this site...

Service Manuals – MyMopar

Get one close to the make and year of your car... It doesn't hurt to get the comparable Dodge, Plymouth, and Chrysler manuals for the year of your car for comparison...
1976 will have to be purchased. '75 to '76 have a number of changes IMO it would be well worth the purchase.

Dying going from N or P into gear could be the idle tuning as several have mentioned.
The engine systems (carburation, ignition, emissions sub-systems, exhaust) for '76 were set up for emissions control for either US or Canada (or Caifornia).

The 1960s engine itself is not that different (solid lifters vs hydraulic) spark plug tubes and so forth.
But depending on what carb, distributor, emissions systems were retained from '76 will determine whether to use 1960s tune up info or 1976 tune up specs. The 1960s non-emissions tune has an idle air:fuel mixture of around 12:1 and fairly low idle rpm.

In contrast the 1976 idle mixture was closer to 14:1, and used a higher idle rpm and a number of other settings all designed to work with the emissions systems. If it has EGR then that should not be in play at idle and cold running.

That all said, I suspect the 18* at 950 rpm may be part of the issue.
If the distributor begins to advance at 750 rpm, and the engine is idling at 950 rpm, then the 18* is not the initial.
18* then is the initial plus centrifical at 950 rpm.

Lets look at the '67 factory specs for a non-emissions slant six and plot the acceptable range for timing with
Initial timing set at 5* BTDC, 600 rpm.
1693396815519.png


Look at the rpm where centrifical advance may begin to add timing.

Advance curves for the emissions era often were quicker, but begin at higher rpm.
If you have the original distributor, you can look up the specs in the service manual or Sun card for that year. Otherwise, the only way to know the advance for sure will be to measure the timing vs. rpm from as slow as you can get the engine to run.

You can delay the start of the mechanical advance by adding tension to the primary spring.

If the emissions packages have been tossed, and using the earlier carb, then the engine will run strong at 650 rpm with a relatively rich idle mix. But that rich idle mix will kill at catalytic converter if the car is so equiped.

As 66fs posted, tuning is iterative and the timing and fuel mix work hand in glove. You may need to fiddle with the idle speed adjustment (initial throttle position). As you make the engine stronger, less throttle should be needed.

Only things I would add is that fuel mix set in neutral will be leaner than needed in gear. Add a little fuel from best in neutral/park so it will have some power in gear. Procedure most use is turning the mix screws in from best running. When there is drop in rpm and vacuum, turn the mix screws back out at least 1/8, preferably 1/4 turn.
 
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Can you force it to run in gear with the gas pedal? If so, it's not the converter.
 
1976 will have to be purchased. '75 to '76 have a number of changes IMO it would be well worth the purchase.

Dying going from N or P into gear could be the idle tuning as several have mentioned.
The engine systems for '76 were set up for emissions control (carburation, ignition, emissions sub-systems, exhaust) for either US or Canada (or Caifornia).

The 1960s engine itself is not that different (solid lifters vs hydraulic) spark plug tubes and so forth.
But depending on what carb, distributor, emissions systems were retained from '76 will determine whether to use 1960s tune up info or 1976 tune up specs. The 1960s non-emissions tune has an idle air:fuel mixture of around 12:1 and fairly idle rpm.

In contrast the 1976 idle mixture was closer to 14:1, and used a higher idle rpm and a number of other settings all designed to work with the emissions systems. If it has EGR then that should not be in play at idle and cold running.

That all said, I suspect the 18* at 950 rpm may be part of the issue.
If the distributor begins to advance at 750 rpm, and the engine is idling at 950 rpm, then the 18* is not the initial.
18* then is the initial plus centrifical at 950 rpm.

Lets look at the '67 factory specs for a non-emissions slant six and plot the acceptable range for timing with
Initial timing set at 5* BTDC, 600 rpm.
View attachment 1716135307

Look at the rpm where centrifical advance may begin to add timing.

Advance curves for the emissions era often were quicker, but begin at higher rpm.
If you have the original distributor, you can look up the specs in the service manual or Sun card for that year. Otherwise, the only way to know the advance for sure will be to measure the timing vs. rpm from as slow as you can get the engine to run.

You can delay the start of the mechanical advance by adding tension to the primary spring.

If the emissions packages have been tossed, and using the earlier carb, then the engine will run strong at 650 rpm with a relatively rich idle mix. But that rich idle mix will kill at catalytic converter if the car is so equiped.

As 66fs posted, tuning is iterative and the timing and fuel mix work hand in glove. You may need to fiddle with the idle speed adjustment (initial throttle position). As you make the engine stronger, less throttle should be needed.

Only things I would add is that fuel mix set in neutral will be leaner than needed in gear. Add a little fuel from best in neutral/park so it will have some power in gear. Procedure most use is turning the mix screws in from best running. When there is drop in rpm and vacuum, turn the mix screws back out at least 1/8, preferably 1/4 turn.
I’ve run into a bit of a new problem now. Just a few days ago the replacement carb came in and we installed it with no issues. Made sure the jets and everything were clean. The car now refuses to idle below 25* and 1200rpm. Obviously it’s not drivable at that rpm so it’s at home right now. I’ve attempted to slow the rpm and lower the degrees by using the throttle every once in awhile to keep it running but no luck. I’ve had me look at it, and quite a few family members who are mechanics or heavy duty’s and we’re all stumped. I’m wondering if we caused an issue when we replaced the head. The head was from a 1975 slant six (we replaced it before we knew the engine was older and just before these issues began.) at this point the goal isn’t been running right but to get her to idle at all
 
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