Small bolt vs. Big bolt

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sublimeswinger

sublimeswinger

SUBLIME Senior Member
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What are the advantages to switching to a big bolt pattern from a small bolt patteren? Is it just the availibility of rims or are there othere reasons?
 
One advantage could be a disc brake conversion from the old drums. Also, if you happen to be shopping for complete rear end set-ups and axles, the large would be more advantageous as far as overall availability......old used rims are much more common in the large pattern, if you happen to be shopping for period correct steel or mags.

HOWEVER, there are still plenty of small bolt options available out there.......I installed an 8-3/4 Posi in my Demon, and held onto the small bolt pattern....American Racing supplied the rims (and still do, by custom order....and at the same prices as their common stock rims)......and since I had the large drum brakes, I already had a decent stopping power (not as good as discs, granted....but not bad).

I've seen a lot of cars start to swap out to the big bolt patterns and not finish the job too........this can be a nightmare for the next owner.

I suppose if I were going to stomp this thing at the track on a regular basis, I would convert.....BUT, I just don't see many advantages for a Classic Cruiser to make the change.

(My Demon puts out around 300 Horses too, and the small pattern has never been an issue).
 
Yea, only one company makes a small BC kit for disc's up front. I don't beleive any one makes a kit for rear dics in 4"BC.
You get way more wheel choices with the 4.5 BC.
There is a company out theer called Coys (http://www.coyswheel.com./) that does make 4" BC wheels in 16 and 17 inch wheels, so it just depends on what you want and how big your budget is.
 
If you are going to built your car for handling and going around curves the wider bolt pattern and larger studs are better as far as strength is concerned.

Chuck
 
there are two main advantages in my book...

1) the disc brakes... yes you can get the small bolt disc but they are a ton of money... ever price a caliber for those? man its crazy.. the 73-up disc brake stuff is alot cheaper and easier to get and uses the larger upper ball joint..


2) alot more wheel choices..
 
The reason i ask is because i just got on the order list for the small bolt crager ss and they are 168 ea. I have a 8 3/4 to go in and it has the small bolt pattern. If the main reason was the rims (wheels) then i would have that covered (my 2 choices for wheels would be cragers or ralleys) which i can get in both. The disc breaks is somthing i do want latter. So should i wait on the wheels and convert?
 
What are you running for brakes on the front of your car now?
If they are drums, you could put on the Disc's from Master Power, theh have the 4' BC. That would save you from getting new axles and drums for the back.
 
Crager's,$168.00 each OUCH !!!!!!!!!!

Throw in the 8 3/4 and go with some factory steel or rallye wheels.

.02
 
i have drums up front. I would like to have disc one day, just not alot of mula to through at it right now,plus im doing the /6 to v8 conversion right now and thats sucking alot of the funds for the car. my buddy brought this up last night while we were talking, " I thought you were gonna go to a big bolt" and I told him i wouldnt need to because I found the rims......So it just got me thinking about other issues i may have with this plan of attack.

So..... I guess from what im reading your suggestions would be to switch?
Sounds like in the long run i may save money by switching?
 
sublimeswinger said:
I have a 8 3/4 to go in and it has the small bolt pattern.
Click to expand...

You can likely sell the 8 3/4 and with the money pick up an 8 1/4 and the 73+ disk brake stuff. That way you could have the big bolt pattern all the way around.
 
Keith Mopar

Yea, only one company makes a small BC kit for disc's up front

you could put on the Disc's from Master Power, theh have the 4' BC.
Click to expand...


I'm have a SSBC brake kit for the front of my car and the they are drilled for both 4" and 4.5".
 
I went through this decision because I wanted to convert to front disc brakes a couple of years ago and wad 14 inch Cragars. At the time all I could find with both bolt patterns was a Wilwood disc brake system and installed it. What I didn't realize was that the hubs were drilled for half inch studs in both bolt patterns. Not a problem if you have steel wheels, but 14 inch Cragars are drilled for 7-16 inch studs.
So I ended up buying a set of 15 inch Cragars, 15 X 6 in front and 15 X 7 in back. Of course then I had to get LB pattern axles for my 8-3 quarter rear and HD rear springs so the larger wheel-tires would fit. I had Moser re-drill mine and install non adjustable bearings, but if I had to do it all over again I'd buy a new set of LB pattern axles from Brewers or wherever.
My advice would be to stay away from 14 inch SB pattern Cragars if you're going to convert to disc brakes, or at least make sure the SSC or other conversion kit is drilled for 7-16 inch studs.
I like my Wilwoods, light, look great and work well but they are a bit pricey.

Finished suspension rebuild and disc conv sm.jpg
 
71swing said:
I'm have a SSBC brake kit for the front of my car and the they are drilled for both 4" and 4.5".
Click to expand...

Master power and SSBC are one in the same. Master power just resells the SSBC brake kit. I should of explained this better.
 
Also, not all 73 and up cars have 4.5 bolt pattern. I have a 71 Swinger with 4"BP disc up front. I found a 73 that has disc up front but they are still 4" BP. If your read is 4"BP i would just stick with that. Measure your studs and make sure you get the wheels for that size. Just my .02
Jeff
 
You would be fine with the SBP but just realize that they have limitations. If you are okay with that then keep the SBP. I kept the SBP because I already had my SWS wheels and did not want to purchase a new set of wheels/axles/brake backing plates, etc. I too have the SSBC kit so I could run either pattern in the future up front. Changing to new quality A-body large bolt pattern axles is not cheap either. You can have yours redrilled though. The SBP should hold up to 400-475hp no problem. I had the same question about a year ago.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Crager's,$168.00 each OUCH !!!!!!!!!!

Throw in the 8 3/4 and go with some factory steel or rallye wheels.

.02
Click to expand...


I just looked a summit and 5 on 4 1/2 ss rims are 138. So why is 168 for a harder to find size a bad price? Ralleys are 95 with out rings and cap...so those would be more.

This is the look im going for

d9_3.jpg
 
Why is $168.00 a bad price?

I never said it was a bad price,I said "ouch".

In a earlier post you said "I just dont have a lot of mula to through at it right now.I'm just trying to help you with what you have.

I believe you should stick with the small bolt pat.You have a 8 3/4",put that in.Put on a set of Kelsey Hayes 4 piston disc(66-72 A-body) on the front,Powder coat(gloss black)your 14" wheels,with a 205/70-14 tire.This would be a great set-up for now without a lot of mula from your pocket

note:The early a-body Kelsey Hayes parts are not as hard/expensive to find as some would have you to believe.Are the parts as prevalent as the 73 parts,no.But I had no problem finding the parts for mine.

.02
The 65 car has everything mentioned above except the 8 3/4".(6cyl car)

The 318 Swinger is my new project.

081_81.JPG


Picture 182.jpg
 
note:The early a-body Kelsey Hayes parts are not as hard/expensive to find as some would have you to believe.
Click to expand...


what does a rebuilt caliber cost? priced one a few years ago and it was nuts.. have they come down within reason finally?
 
I can get the early caliper for $100.00 loaded.

Price on the 73 caliper loaded was $40.00. :yawinkle:

I guess you have to pick & choose your battles. :banghead:
 
i hear you there.. i paid $23 per caliber at advanced auto for the 73-up style caliber.. its pretty much no win either way i guess... do the small bolt style and pay more for the brake stuff... do the 73-up and have to change rear axles,brakes and wheels.... gonna cost ya either way..lol
 
I hear ya brother.
In the long run big bolt is a better set-up all the way around.

choose your poison. :yawinkle:
 
ya didnt mean any offense. I like your idea with the wheels. It looks great on your car :thumbup: it might look good on mine to :toothy7: Its a whole different thing when someone can show you a pic. Looks good. maybe ill re think this whole thing.

Thanks


Do you have a web link for the brakes you mentioned?
 
No worries,it's all good conversation.
The small bolt kelsey hayes disc brakes can be found on any 1966-1972
A-body with disc brakes.

Let me suggest a book for you:
Chrysler performance upgrades by Frank Adkins

This book is a wealth of information with everything from engine swaps to upgrading to disc.Check it out.
 
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