So, what's wrong with this Demon?

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YY1

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Usually Demon's don't last very long for sale.

Even 225 cars seem to go quickly.

This is a 318 car, and except for a green interior, doesn't look too bad.

I'm aware of the "what's hiding under the primer" potential.

1971 Dodge Demon | eBay

4K OBO
 
s-l500.jpg
 
Everybody within' a 5 hrs. ride of Norfolk VA is waiting 'till the last day, then the flurry of "7 watchers/hr." will turn into bidders I'm guessing...........................
 
No engine or transmission, roller only. And the cheap primer on everything says “run!!!”. Hard to get a good idea of what’s under that. Also hard to tell what’s going on with the floors because of the paint on them. Not a lot of pictures of the parts where rust hides either.

$4k isn’t terrible, but it’s not a slam dunk IMHO given the unanswered questions and the fact that it can’t ever be a numbers matching car. I mean, I don’t care about that crap but that’s what ultimately drives a lot of the value.
 
That car has been listed over and over on Craigslist. Tried to contact the guy a while back for more info and got no response. If I recall correctly it was listed in NC.
 
Has anyone been watching Demons for the last decade?

They seem to sell FAST no matter the condition, or the original engine.

This is the 2nd or 3rd time listed on ebay as well.

Either the seller is a terrible. terrible communicator or worse, or the car is terrible underneath, but sure doesn't look it for the surface.

This is coming from a guy that can usually spot bondo or even a skim coat in photos.
 
Has anyone been watching Demons for the last decade?

They seem to sell FAST no matter the condition, or the original engine.

This is the 2nd or 3rd time listed on ebay as well.

Either the seller is a terrible. terrible communicator or worse, or the car is terrible underneath, but sure doesn't look it for the surface.

This is coming from a guy that can usually spot bondo or even a skim coat in photos.

Yup, I’ve been watching Demons for close to a decade. And they usually sell pretty fast unless they’re overpriced or total rot buckets. That’s why I bought a Duster and built a clone, because it was cheaper to do that than buy a real Demon that was in decent shape.

The rest of it I agree with, either he’s a terrible seller or that car is rough, making it overpriced. With that primer and those photos though you can’t tell a thing, I don’t care who you are. That car could be a bondo sculpture over chicken wire and it would be hard to see it in those pictures. I don’t think it’s that bad, but for a rolling shell it would have to be in pretty decent shape to bring $4K, and you can’t tell what you’re getting from those pictures.
 
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shitty pictures, shitty ad and god knows what hiding under that shitter black primer. looks like a turd to me.. would be nice to see if it actually is in person..
 
shitty pictures, shitty ad and god knows what hiding under that shitter black primer. looks like a turd to me.. would be nice to see if it actually is in person..

Exactly!

You’d have to see it in person for sure. It could be nicer than it looks with all that cheap primer, but you just can’t tell from those pictures. I’ve seen cars that looked 10x better than that one still turn out to be bondo buckets.
 
And in the rust belt, it more then likely has lots of hidden rust....
 
I know a guy that have a 74 or 75 dusterthat needs paint with no rust with a healthy driving duster for 6500 obo
 
Usually you can tell if the body lines are right.

..unless better than GYC quality skim coat has been applied.

...and that usually doesn't jive with the rest of the story on these types of listings.

I do see one small area on the pass side line below the rear deck that doesn't look super straight.
 
Usually you can tell if the body lines are right.

..unless better than GYC quality skim coat has been applied.

...and that usually doesn't jive with the rest of the story on these types of listings.

I do see one small area on the pass side line below the rear deck that doesn't look super straight.

Hmmm. Tell me everything you see wrong with this one then, if anything. This is only a test, if this had been a real emergency body work instructions would follow. This one's a piece of cake, full sunlight, shiny paint.

IMG_3823.jpg
 
Not taking that bait, but I did correctly judge my 73 Satellite to be 99.9% rust and body work free from the craigslist photos and my 66 Coronet to be 99% rust free with no body work ever from ebay pics.

I've also pointed out some things to several FxBO members that they did not immediately see in listing pics and "WIW" threads.
 
Not taking that bait, but I did correctly judge my 73 Satellite to be 99.9% rust and body work free from the craigslist photos and my 66 Coronet to be 99% rust free with no body work ever from ebay pics.

I've also pointed out some things to several FxBO members that they did not immediately see in listing pics and "WIW" threads.

Well it's a shame you didn't want to use your skills to find hidden issues on a car you already knew had problems. Finding a couple of discrepancies on pictures on the internet doesn't mean all that much. Sure, if you can see an issue on a picture on the internet, there's usually a problem. But not seeing any issues doesn't mean it's good. Especially if the pictures are small, the lighting is poor, the car is in primer, and you don't have any of the angles you need to actually see.

So, even though you didn't bother to judge my car any, I'll throw these out there for the other folks that think you can see everything you need to see from a couple of little pictures.

This is the quarter on my car, the same exact car in the picture I posted earlier. What about those body lines huh? Did you notice they were sculpted out of inches of bondo? Or did they look pretty decent? I thought they looked pretty decent, they fooled me.
IMG_5016.jpg


Check out the front of the quarter and wheel opening, does that look right? On the opposite side this looked the same, there was actually bondo packed in a hole in the quarter that went all the way through to the interior of the car.
IMG_5017.jpg


Could you tell they painted straight over rust? It becomes pretty obvious after a year or so when the bondo falls off...
IMG_5018.jpg


Same treatment at the door and fender, bondo over rust. This is obviously worse than it was in the picture, but what was under the paint was already there.
IMG_5015.jpg


So yeah, I tend to think that Demon is a hot mess under that primer. You'd have to see it in person, because those pictures don't tell you anything at all.
 
I almost said "rear wheel opening doesn't look flat enough at the top", but of course I could say anything after you spilled the beans.

...and you gave me one pic at an angle that was the worst to see the issue you then presented...from the opposite angle.

I've also found that often a seller will take a pic of a defect, but it will not be the focus or center of the pic.

For example, a shot a the new sill molding with a rotten hinge area almost out of the frame.


I'm one of those types that has stuff stashed everywhere, and to others it looks like "no organization".

...but move one item on my desk, and I know instantly.

I also really liked "Hocus Focus" as a kid and can whoop up on "Photo Hunt" at the bar.
 
I almost said "rear wheel opening doesn't look flat enough at the top", but of course I could say anything after you spilled the beans.

...and you gave me one pic at an angle that was the worst to see the issue you then presented...from the opposite angle.

I've also found that often a seller will take a pic of a defect, but it will not be the focus or center of the pic.

For example, a shot a the new sill molding with a rotten hinge area almost out of the frame.


I'm one of those types that has stuff stashed everywhere, and to others it looks like "no organization".

...but move one item on my desk, and I know instantly.

I also really liked "Hocus Focus" as a kid and can whoop up on "Photo Hunt" at the bar.

Right. There's actually nothing wrong with the shape of the rear wheel opening, other than they filled the lip with bondo to make up for their lousy partial quarter installation (it overlaps the original quarter there) and to cover the rust in the outer edge of the wheelhouse. The outer shape is right, the lip is just bent under and filled so it's flat.

And you can see the bodyline just fine in that picture. But really, that's the kind of stuff you're up against making judgements about the bodywork on a car from pictures on the internet. You think the pictures will show all the defects? Of course not. They'll be taken so you can't see the defects. Honestly it's probably more helpful to think about what pictures are "missing", what parts of the bodywork aren't shown, or aren't shown from certain angles.

Like I said earlier, there's no way in hell I'd assume the Demon in that add has good bodywork from the pictures that are given. The pictures are tiny, the light conditions and the primer will hide everything, and there's entire parts of the car you can't even see.

But let's take a look anyway right? So the trunk doesn't fit, and there's something going on with the left rear quarter.
s-l500 (4).jpg

On the right quarter, the body lines are not good. There's a big dent in the quarter. And the roof line is filled with bondo or something, because the line at the window is wrong.
s-l500.jpg


The roof line from another angle-something going on there for sure. The body lines on the front of the quarter here aren't right either, it's hard to see but the factory concave spot has probably been filled with bondo. And the front lower fender is bent.
s-l500 (1).jpg


Trunk lid doesn't fit very well at all. Could be a bad adjustment, or...
s-l500 (3).jpg


Uh, is the top of the fender made of bondo? because the fender extension seems to fit the grille, and it doesn't look like it's low at the hood. Of course, there's zero good pictures of the right front fender. So, something else is wrong with the right front too.
s-l500 (5).jpg


Hood has been hit and bent down on this side, you can see the bend and the gap problems. And no other pictures of the hood or hood to fender gaps.
s-l500 (2).jpg


Hopefully no one here bought it, because that thing is rough. And that's just from tiny little pictures. Also, no pictures of the trunk, no good pictures of the engine bay, nothing good for the right front fender or door for that matter. Pictures of the floor don't show the front foot wells. So, no pictures at all of the spots most likely to have rust. Ad has been taken down, says "no longer available". Maybe somebody got it for a bunch less than $4K.
 
See, you can do it, too.

Without really scrutinizing, I noticed the left arrow in your fist and last pics plus the tail light openings almost look too square. That's a pretty common bondo fix on those cars.
 
See, you can do it, too.

Without really scrutinizing, I noticed the left arrow in your fist and last pics plus the tail light openings almost look too square. That's a pretty common bondo fix on those cars.

Of course I can do it. I spent the better part of my formative years doing bodywork on old British cars. That's not the point. The point is that even with a background in autobody repair you can't tell everything from a few crappy pictures. If you can see problems, then there's problems. If you can't, it doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any problems, it just means that you can't see them. Maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the angle of the picture, maybe it's the quality and size of the picture. The Demon in question has the potential to be a total disaster. You asked why it hadn't sold, that's the answer. It doesn't even look good on the surface, and the combination of tiny pictures, terrible lighting, and cheap primer blanketing absolutely everything means what you can see is only the tip of the iceberg.

Whoever bought that car has their work cut out for them. Hopefully they saw it coming, and negotiated a better price. Demons are hard to find, that one is still worth fixing, it's just the cost and knowing what you're getting into.

The front is screwed, the chin valance and grill....

Well, the front isn't screwed. It is missing the grille in that picture but I removed it, and the valance is definitely kinda beat up, too many parking block encounters. But yeah, compared to what you can't see, that's nothing. That Challenger as is sits in that picture needs new quarters, half the floor, half the trunk, most of the rear frame rails, part of the firewall, parts of the kick boxes, and about half of the hardtop structure replaced. It's a flaming disaster.
 
Of course I can do it. I spent the better part of my formative years doing bodywork on old British cars. That's not the point. The point is that even with a background in autobody repair you can't tell everything from a few crappy pictures. If you can see problems, then there's problems. If you can't, it doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any problems, it just means that you can't see them. Maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the angle of the picture, maybe it's the quality and size of the picture. The Demon in question has the potential to be a total disaster. You asked why it hadn't sold, that's the answer. It doesn't even look good on the surface, and the combination of tiny pictures, terrible lighting, and cheap primer blanketing absolutely everything means what you can see is only the tip of the iceberg.

Whoever bought that car has their work cut out for them. Hopefully they saw it coming, and negotiated a better price. Demons are hard to find, that one is still worth fixing, it's just the cost and knowing what you're getting into.



Well, the front isn't screwed. It is missing the grille in that picture but I removed it, and the valance is definitely kinda beat up, too many parking block encounters. But yeah, compared to what you can't see, that's nothing. That Challenger as is sits in that picture needs new quarters, half the floor, half the trunk, most of the rear frame rails, part of the firewall, parts of the kick boxes, and about half of the hardtop structure replaced. It's a flaming disaster.
Dang, sure is hidden well.....
 
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