Solid lifter / Hydrualic Cam

Big Block A body Tech

  1. Kendog 170

    Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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    Valvetrain Tech: Lash Is Much More Than Just A Little Gap

    In this article they talk about this. Has anybody actually done this. I have a noisey Comp Cam HL series hydraulic. I did buy a Solid cam and lifter set but have held off because the car runs awesome (5 years now) I also don't like the bleed down when starting after it sits awhile.
    Just curious .
     
  2. A Body 440 WHY NOT

    A Body 440 WHY NOT Well-Known Member

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    The article speaks of mech ROLLER lifters on a hyd ROLLER cam. You would be better off with a mechanical cam. Steeper ramps and such. With mechanical lifters. my 02
     
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    • silversedan

      silversedan Well-Known Member

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      I've done it before on a 273, couldn't find a decent small solid cam, and talked to a cam manufacture and he said it could be done, but you have to run the lash real tight, around 5 thousands max.
       
    • Kendog 170

      Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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      Yes, this is what I read.
      “In many cases, it’s acceptable to use mechanical lifters on a hydraulic camshaft if relatively tight valve lash figures are used,” adds Knight. “Without clearance ramps on the hydraulic lobes, lash settings of .005-inch are usually appropriate. However, we do not advise hydraulic lifters to be used on mechanical camshafts. The lifters will react to the clearance ramps as they would to lobes with excessive base circle runout, resulting to premature lifter pump-up, valves being held open, a loss of power and an excess of pressure in the lifter that can break it. One possible exception might be a dedicated racing style lifter that’s produced for hydraulic lifter rule restrictions. This would have an extremely short plunger travel (.010- to .020-inch) and a quick leak-down rate, essentially acting as a mechanical lifter when in operation.”
       
    • Bewy

      Bewy Well-Known Member

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      Yes, run the sol lifters but keep lash tight as suggested, 0.004-0.006" at operating temperature.
      Comp has both FT & roller lobes series that can run either hyd or sol lifters.
       
    • Ceedawg

      Ceedawg Well-Known Member

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      Will be running solids on the hyd in the E/SA 340 either tool steel or Shubeks
       
    • moparker

      moparker Well-Known Member

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      Will they need adjusted periodically like a solid setup?
       
    • Kendog 170

      Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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      Well thanks for the replies. Still not sure how safe to run existing cam with standard solid lifters so I'll probably live with it or put the solid cam and lifter kit in this summer.
       
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      • Ceedawg

        Ceedawg Well-Known Member

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        Yes
         
      • PRH

        PRH Well-Known Member

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        There isn’t really any “problem” running sold lifters on a hyd cam...... but why would you want to?
        The sole reason for the hyd lifter is so you don’t need to adjust them.
        Set the preload and go.

        Part of the parameters that need to be considered when designing a hyd cam lobe is to not create a situation that upsets the hyd mechanism in the lifter.
        As such, there is somewhat of a built in limitation to the design.

        If you put solid lifters on the hyd cam, it’s no longer maintenance free.
        If you’re going to have to adjust it anyway...... why not use a lobe design that didn’t have to take the lifters hyd mechanism into consideration.

        If you go back and read the Mopar Muscle article in 05 or 06, “mild mannered mauler”, they ended up putting solid lifters on the hyd cam to solve an upper rpm stability issue.
        Look through the dyno results between the two different lifters...... and see if you notice the thing that happened...... that they never mentioned in the article.
         
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        • Ceedawg

          Ceedawg Well-Known Member

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          Can you rev a hyd lifter 8500? That’s the reason for a solid on any cam. Would I run that on the street hec no. The rules allow solid lifters now and $100 is better than $1000 ‘fixed’ hyd. that might rev 6800-7000
           
          Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
        • oldkimmer

          oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I have run flat tappet lifters either way on either cam. No I’ll effects. Kim
           
        • oldkimmer

          oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I have run hydro lifters to well past 7000. They were never intended to go 8500. I don’t really see any members here wanting to rev to 8500 with there street/strip builds. Sure there is some die hards doing it but they are not a typical street/strip build. The expense is way more then our street /strip builds. If I really ever want to go faster than 9s I’ll do a pro or super charger and still keep the revs to 7500 or less. Kim
           
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          • Kendog 170

            Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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            If you heard how noisey at idle it is you might understand. I don't care for the bleed down when starting as well. As I said it runs great. 500 Stroker /727/323 gear street car. Still did an 11.7 just driving in and putting in line. I know it may do better as after I found the secondary likage wasn't opening all the way. The New solid kit I bought has a little less lift and thought I may lose a little out of it. I know I can fish out the lifters without removing the intke. I changed the lifters once trying to quiet it up but no luck.
             
          • Kendog 170

            Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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            Oh and if you haven't notice before , I kind of overthink things sometimes lol I look at it as checking my options and or learning by asking.
             
          • PRH

            PRH Well-Known Member

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            I wasn’t referring to your situation in particular.
            More of a general viewpoint.
            If you’re going to use solid lifters anyway, just get the cam to go with them from the start.

            In your situation, it’s somewhat of an experiment.
            Just keep in mind 1/2 of what you’re doing when you’re breaking in the cam is breaking in the lifters....... so, if you try the new solids..... you should sort of treat it as a new cam.

            The main issue with the hyd lifters on the XE/HL cams is, in many(most?) cases the motor won’t have peaked yet at the point where the lifters decide to start acting up, so people end up running the motors well into the range where the lifter unhappiness is going on.

            That’s one series of lobes where unless you’re very disciplined about keeping the rpm in check....... solid lifters are the better option.

            But, my point earlier was........ if you’re making decisions about the combo in the beginning, and this is a crossroads you’re at....... just get the solid cam to go with the solid lifters.
             
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            • Kendog 170

              Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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              Yeah this isn't the beginning I'm 5 years in . When I changed my hyd. lifters the second time I did as you said and broke them in. Good info thanks.
              I'll probably put the solid set up I have in and if I lose that much get a solid cam with specs like the Hyd.
               
            • PRH

              PRH Well-Known Member

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              You’ll need longer pushrods too.
              The pushrod seat is quite a bit lower in a solid lifter than it is in a hyd.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              People have done it a lot, but why? When flat tappet cams sets are so inexpensive, just get the correct one.
               
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              • Kendog 170

                Kendog 170 Let the boy go !

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                Yes I know. Here's a question. I'm running stock length Ball/ball 8.905" long pushrod. Does anyone know how much longer for the solids ? My geometry is good and only have a couple of threads showing after adjustment on my current set up. I know I need to measure to be sure. I'm thinking finding my base circle , remove the hydraulic and slip in a solid from my kit and measure with adjustable pushrod. This way I can get them 1st before starting the job. Sound OK?
                 
              • PRH

                PRH Well-Known Member

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                That’s how it’s done.
                 
              • AJ/FormS

                AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                solid lifters on a hyd cam, will spend way more time on the longer clearance ramps than they need to. Thus defeating one of features of a solid cam kit.
                Will it run? Sure.
                But you are sacrificing both cylinder pressure and lift, to get a tiny bit of quieting, and periodic maintenance in the trade.

                Check your pushrods to be sure they are not rubbing in the tunnels.
                I have had good success with Hughes anti-pump-ups, to 7200 and beyond, running .020 preload with aluminum 1.6 rockers on Eddies.. The lifters were new in ~2004.
                 
              • Bewy

                Bewy Well-Known Member

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                Solid lifter cams have longer clearance ramps than hyd cams.
                 
              • Andrezinho

                Andrezinho FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                you don't have to read this article!

                I am a simple engine manufacturer who has worked for more than 35 years with racing engines on mixed circuits. even if I love dragsters, it is a discipline very far from my everyday reality.
                but I just wanted to tell you a little bit of information.
                there are some extremely important parameters that no cam maker in the world likes to mention.
                laws of lifting, velocity, acelertion, jerk
                The most important moment is precisely when the lifter arrives near the maximum opening of the cam.
                the majority of valve springs are not really optimal compared to the cam, even if they are part of a kit.
                a hydraulic lifter has the advantage of being silent, and very little adjustment.
                but a true racing engine must imperatively use a mechanical pusher.

                guys that's only my opinion !!!!

                Andrea
                 
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                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                  a hydraulic lifter is supposed to to have the advantage of being silent, and NEVER requiring an adjustment over the life of the engine. And in stockers they do their job admirably.

                  There, fixed it for ya.....
                   
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