starter relay

[ducter]

Working on the electrical of my 73 dart sport, the starter relay is missing some wires and the other one is cut off, got a wiring diagram from classic industries but what its showing isnt exactly what I have, both are 4 pronged but not sure what goes where. Anyone know off hand where the wires come and go to?

thanks

 

[d55dave]

As your diagram shows, one (yellow) goes to the ignition switch and is powered in the "start" position. The other one completes the ground through a neutral safety switch (automatic) or the clutch pedal switch (if equipped, standard)....at least that is the way I remember it.

 

[67Dart273]

That's right. I don't remember if your 73 has/ had the seat belt interlock, with the reset relay under the hood. If it does, look for two yellow/ yellow stripe wires and hook them together.

Does not matter which wire goes on which "push on" terminal, which is the coil of the relay.

 

[ducter]

Ok, so looking at my relay in comparison to the diagram my top connection had at one point 2 wires connected, where should they go? Same question for the connection under it. The remaining 2 slot type connections don't matter which is plugged in where, that's good to know.

thanks

 

[67Dart273]

OK, the "big stud" is two functions--junction point and one contact of the relay. It goes main cable from battery --to stud-- main cable to starter

The "square" goes to your starter solenoid (small stud on the starter) with no 12 or 10 wire

One of (doesn't matter) the bottom "push on" terminals, marked IGN and GROUND in the diagram, goes to ground VIA your neutral safety switch on the transmission, or the clutch safety switch if used. If you have a stick/ no clutch safety, just ground it

The remaining "push on" (yellow in the diagram) goes through the bulkhead to the start terminal of your ignition switch. As I mentioned, if you have the seat belt interlock under the hood, this is in series.

Mopar uses these for two reasons---it relieves current on the ign switch, because the solenoid draws a fair amount of current, and the wiring of the relay allows the neutral safety circuit to be a simple one wire "grounding" circuit.

Your auto trans should have three terminals on the NSS. The two outer terminals go to the backup lamp circuit, and the CENTER terminal goes up to the starter relay

What are you doing for a harness? If you are using a factory harness, it should all hook up. If you have some sort of aftermarket, you may have to add some wire.

 

[ducter]

Thanks so much! Makes sense now. Everything with this car electrically has been hacked up. Just wanting to be sure it's all done right.

 

[pyrojim]

I installed a new wiring harness from Evans, and it was about as close to perfect as you could get. The yellow ignition wire on the relay was a fork type connector and hooked to the same stud that the #10 wire to the starter goes to. The new harness has a push on female type connector? Does this go on the male blade type on the relay? I know because of the orientation, that the neutral safety switch goes to the one on the right.

 

[67Dart273]

That is wired wrong. What you have done there is "not used" the relay, as well as bypassed the neutral safety function. The yellow goes to the remaining push--on terminal. Electrically, it does not matter which blade the yellow goes to.

 

[pyrojim]

Thanks. Thats the old wiring, I just wanted to make sure I had it right. I do have it pushed on the blade opposite the n.s.s.
I wonder if the previous owner did that because the relay is bad???

 

[67Dart273]

Who knows? Thing is, not only to you negate the NSS, but you are now running the solenoid directly off the ignition switch, which it was never designed to do.

 

[pyrojim]

the motor is out and there is no power to the car right now, is there any way to check and see if the relay is kaput???

 

[67Dart273]

Really easier to troubleshoot "in the car" because the starter solenoid will put a load on the contacts. They are easy to get, just about any year will work, the brackets may be a little different.

 

[cudajim]

Just looking at your rusty old relay makes me cringe. You ought to replace it even if it works just for preventive maintenance. They're relatively cheap and a new one would look so much better. Good luck.

 

[BillGrissom]

They're relatively cheap and a new one would look so much better. Good luck.

Don't even worry about not being able to get one in the future, since you can use a regular 30 A automotive relay in its place (I do). It just wouldn't have the same connectors, and you wouldn't have the big stud as a convenient battery power pass-thru.

 

[ducter]

Just looking at your rusty old relay makes me cringe. You ought to replace it even if it works just for preventive maintenance. They're relatively cheap and a new one would look so much better. Good luck.

Yeah , I was planning on replacing it. The car had sat for 10-12 years prior to me buying it. It's not currently on the road and won't be for some time to come. I am just trying to figure out as much as I can and put it back as close to original as possible. It is so hacked up that unless I get everything back how it belongs I fear I won't be able to figure out the electrical issues.

 

[ratty dart 340]

Yeah , I was planning on replacing it. The car had sat for 10-12 years prior to me buying it. It's not currently on the road and won't be for some time to come. I am just trying to figure out as much as I can and put it back as close to original as possible. It is so hacked up that unless I get everything back how it belongs I fear I won't be able to figure out the electrical issues.

Hey there I am reviving this thread.

I also have a 73 dart sport witch some interesting ignition problems. I have a thread on here titled “wont start unless door is open” and I explained how the car would only start if the the driver side door was open. I tracked down a few shorts and replaced some parts. Fixed a few things except the ignition.

some time has passed and I had it running and idling a few days ago. I can’t remember what I did or moved, expect for grounding the seatbelt to the body of the car. Now the car only starts when the starter is engaged. The second I release the key from the starter, the car dies. I just took my ignition module to napa and they said it works after testing it. I am very confident I don’t have the seatbelt interlock. Also the car has the starter solenoid which I am very suspicious of.

 

[ratty dart 340]

Hey there I am reviving this thread.

I also have a 73 dart sport witch some interesting ignition problems. I have a thread on here titled “wont start unless door is open” and I explained how the car would only start if the the driver side door was open. I tracked down a few shorts and replaced some parts. Fixed a few things except the ignition.

some time has passed and I had it running and idling a few days ago. I can’t remember what I did or moved, expect for grounding the seatbelt to the body of the car. Now the car only starts when the starter is engaged. The second I release the key from the starter, the car dies. I just took my ignition module to napa and they said it works after testing it. I am very confident I don’t have the seatbelt interlock. Also the car has the starter solenoid which I am very suspicious of.View attachment 1715896123

another important thing is that the car still doesnt send spark when I Hotwire the coils.

 

[toolmanmike]

Hey there I am reviving this thread.

I also have a 73 dart sport witch some interesting ignition problems. I have a thread on here titled “wont start unless door is open” and I explained how the car would only start if the the driver side door was open. I tracked down a few shorts and replaced some parts. Fixed a few things except the ignition.

some time has passed and I had it running and idling a few days ago. I can’t remember what I did or moved, expect for grounding the seatbelt to the body of the car. Now the car only starts when the starter is engaged. The second I release the key from the starter, the car dies. I just took my ignition module to napa and they said it works after testing it. I am very confident I don’t have the seatbelt interlock. Also the car has the starter solenoid which I am very suspicious of.View attachment 1715896123

That's a Ford solenoid.

 

[ratty dart 340]

That's a Ford solenoid.

Hmmmmm. The previous owner did swap in a ford 9 inch. The car came with a 340, but he swapped in a 360 and did some funky stuff.

it’s still interesting that I had it running and idling but now it won’t do that unless starter is engaged.

 

[67Dart273]

That's a Ford solenoid.

THAT is one heck of a mess.

Modified wiring is very difficult to help troubleshoot because "we have no idea" what you have.

This still gets back to the basics and the "path."

The ignition switch outputs IGN1 (only with key in run) and IGN2 (ballast bypass) (only with key in start). The IGN2 is the ignition power source in "start" and the IGN1 "run" is the power source when the key springs back to that position. That path takes both circuits out into the engine bay. IGN2 ONLY goes to the coil side of the ballast, IGN1 branches off various points and also feeds one end of the ballast. MAKE SURE both those work as they should and go from there