starters keep getting to hot need help

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winstoninwisc

winstoninwisc

Taint easy livin free,season ticket ona 1wayride
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
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Location
sun prairie wi.
HEY ALL FABO FREINDS my new motor is in and running thanks to a lot of fabo help .
I built a motor close to a tony sanchez recipe. IT"S a71 360 LA base block built to some wheres around 366 to a 372 this bleeper Rocks backed up by a TSI trans nested in my blue 65 BARRACUDA . So I have always had this problem even with my 340 in it with stock manifolds , I fire the car and it turns over nice and easy ,but when it gets up to 160 temp the starter wont crank the motor until it cools again ,thenit spins free as a bird . Can some 1 tell me where to get a double insulated starter ? or how to address the issue I have tried the heat tapes and a guard today we broke the motor in I got as hot as 170 sitting still for 30 minutes ,I was so impressed with the new radiator and build ,but when I would go to restart it ,its like a dead battery until I get cooled down to 140,then it would spin free again. new battery 4 grounds battery in trunk with 3/4 positive wire ,wich all checks out fine no cracks or problem with wire housing and an 18"3/4 ground to frame + 3 others is any 1 else having this problem ? how did you fix it ? or where can I find a better quality starter . I go threw 2 starters a year in the last 3 years . I hate buying these starters you have to tighten every nut and bolt before you even put them in I spend more
,go to a different auto store and get the same results, junk starters.. Other than a few little changes in the engine combo this is an awesome 425 hp smallblock for any mopar I will post the recipe/combo again soon cost 4500.00 to 6500.00 depends on who you know or what you can do your self ,biggest cost and change was the RHS 2.02 360 X HEADS instead of the eddies . so any hoo can any 1 help me with my starter heating issue ??
Rick,Tony,Screws,E ,Cracked/ FABO PEEPS ALL INFO HELPS most opinions will be gone over . thanx guys .a ton of 64 ,65 barracuda parts here ,to help you first gen guy"s ive just been so buisy with this build have patients if you rite pms add a phone # I would rather deal over the phone rite now so leave your # or get mine thru the grape vine if I cant help you I have a list of some 1 with 64,65,66 Barracuda"s that can . for people that aren't members please join us ,there is so much info to be had in here any problem can be solved with your mopar. THANKS FABO TO ME ITS BUILT ON TRUST AND FREINDSHIPS PEACE PEOPLE will be watching for opinions with my starter problem or parts needs , Jon
 
Where is your initial timing?
 
Start by COMPARING starter voltage to battery voltage while cranking

TO DO THAT "rig" a big long clip lead that will reach from the trunk to the front "for testing."

Make these tests first cold, then with engine warm. So you'll have to repeat all this again when warm

Disable the ignition so the engine will not fire


1......Clip your long lead to the battery POSITIVE post. If possible, use a helper to "stab" right directly into the battery POST. Run the lead up front, get "under there" and clip another lead carefully to the starter main post. Crank the engine and take a reading while cranking. Post it here. It should be LOW, very LOW, the LOWER the BETTER.

2......Now move the lead to the battery NEG post, if possible directly to the post. Up front, hook your other probe to the engine BLOCK. Repeat the test, reading while cranking. This time the voltage reading should be even LOWER, and again, the lower the better.

In either tests above, more than a couple of tenths (.2V) of a volt means you have a voltage drop problem.

3.....Now, get a helper to stab the meter probes directly into the two battery posts. Crank the engine at least 10 seconds and read while cranking. This time, the higher the better, and if the battery is below 10.5 volts while cranking, you either need a heavier battery, or the battery is not getting fully charged, or the starter is dragging badly. Have the battery load tested.

4....It would be wise to get the car up and running, warm, battery "normalized," and check voltage right at the battery with the engine running at a good fast idle. It might be, that the battery is running low, and never fully gets charged. With engine (regulator) warm, the battery voltage should run 13.8--14.2, and in no case below 13.5, nor above 14.5

Do the above test first with all accessories off, and again with headlights, heater, whatever you can "run" turned on.

What kind of starter are you using? If you have an older "wound" field starter, it's time to go to a "mini" starter.
 
yes this thing eats starters never had a problem with my 273 in it or do I have a problem in my red 1 with a 273 . And we did set the timing at 36it was the sweet spot. we broke it in at 34 and reset to 32 for now to get thing buttoned up. I do need a oem shifter to try to stay original looking inside , if any 1 has 1 please contact me asap otherwise I suppose get a new B&M. But back to Rusty , 1nce it was broken in and we droped the idle down I settled it in at 32 and it was nice, loppy, smooth, idling at 170 ,so perfect for a last 20 minute run standing still ,wich my 340 would have blown250 in a stoplight ,cool spins nice and easy at 32 and needs 1 pipe welded up now but at 150 or 170 it wont turn at 5 degrees retarted ,so its not the motor, my 340 was low on compression but when it got hot same thing would happen .do the hi tourque starters have more insulation factor or am I beating a dead horse with an 15 year old positive cable , its 1/2 inch copper thow? thinking outloud mabee I need to put the battery back upfront and try a different cable . its the only thing I haven't done .mabee the old 1 has a bad spot in it , I do have the original battery harness yet.
hmmmmmmmm
 
Initial timing, NOT TOTAL. What's the timing at idle if it has any curve in the distributor.

GROUNDS. When batteries get put in the trunk, the grounds at the engine get overlooked. You need a good sized ground from block/starter to the frame or another big ground cable back to the rear.

If your 340 did the same thing, I'd bet you have insufficient grounds. I have battery in trunk, and put 2/0 ground from engine block to frame rail. Nuts welded on frame rail to attach. Also have 2/0 starter wire.

Take a pair of LONG jumper cables, attach both of them to the block and then back to the battery neg post. Basically creating another pair of ground cables. See if it starts easier. If it does... you know the issue.
 
Please at least try to learn to type. Reading that mess gives all of the rest of us a headache

PLEASEATLEASTTRYTOLEARNTOTYPESTOPREADINGTHATMESSGIVESALLOFTHERESTOFUSAHEADACHESTOP
 
im with rob.check the ground....mine quit that **** when i added a big cable to the block.
 
crackedback said:
Initial timing, NOT TOTAL. What's the timing at idle if it has any curve in the distributor.

GROUNDS. When batteries get put in the trunk, the grounds at the engine get overlooked. You need a good sized ground from block/starter to the frame or another big ground cable back to the rear.

If your 340 did the same thing, I'd bet you have insufficient grounds. I have battery in trunk, and put 2/0 ground from engine block to frame rail. Nuts welded on frame rail to attach. Also have 2/0 starter wire.

Take a pair of LONG jumper cables, attach both of them to the block and then back to the battery neg post. Basically creating another pair of ground cables. See if it starts easier. If it does... you know the issue.
Click to expand...


I always run ground wire to the engine and also make one for the back passenger intake bolt to the firewall. Use at least a 10 gauge wire and make sure that you have a good ground from the engine to the body.

Too much ground won't hurt you like not enough will.... :banghead:
 
Have you tried to cool the starter down with water when it doesn't start? Just to see if it cools faster and will start up again. This will prove that it is a heat problem.
 
Also try checking the continuity and resistance of your positive wire before spending money to replace it...
 
If you aren't running a mini starter you should consider one.
 
I would check WHERE I had that 3/4" ground to the frame, and how well it is connected, along with the other grounds. Make sure the connected are super clean and then put some No-Ox on them.

If all is clean try the battery back up front. I would spend the $$ to get a new cable or 2 rather than trust the old ones. If that does not do it, get a high torque starter. I had a similar issue with a 351C once upon a time (battery up front); a lot of compression and stock starter was not a good combo.
 
I know I am not a typer by any means I got fat fingers , cant see outa 1 eye and im blind in the other I have a 1 eyed snake and a 3 legged dog and im short on both ends , but dammit I "m tryin . and oh don't put your hand in the gears when they are turning the chain or you will type like this tooo.
we got 1 hint to start 1 used starter on 1 new motor ,that came off a motor that used to over heat.
yes I have 1/2 inch ground cable to the frame to the bock , to the fire walls to the power while the starter wont turn is when its at 170 the lights are brite as can be even when I turn the key
nitro brought up the issue of the armatures cook out of the starters because I ran my 340 with a 3 core radiator that wouldn't keep it cool .
I got a new alium radiator that kept it kewl today at 170 sitting still n 1 1/2 hours during breaking sessions .
I might have stepped over a dollar to pick up a dime with using a used starter on a new motor. theres a little more info keep your opinions coming .
and turn on the crash fest for a million dollars dam I need a sponser and 15 mechanics and a credit card with no limit
 
These are not OPINIONS. These are technical answers, and I think I'm done here
 
and no I am not cracked but yes will trade a like new 340 torker manifold for a mini stater or 150.00 right now 170.00 I pay shipping
 
It sounds like your connections are good, I would start looking at the starter. I'm leaning toward this being a heat issue and not an electrical resistance problem.

You may have cooked it on the other engine. Get another one whether it be a stock style or mini.
 
Your typing is not that bad, just put in a blank line once in a while to separate the text and make it easier to read.

Cut this guy a little slack. Nobody is perfect.....
 
Crackedback pretty much said everything I was thinking, along with 67dart273.
You don't need a hi dollar mini starter. Just get the replacement starter for a '92 5.9 motor in something like a dakota & it's the same thing.
And yes a 15 year old cable may be causing trouble.
 
krazykuda said:
Have you tried to cool the starter down with water when it doesn't start? Just to see if it cools faster and will start up again. This will prove that it is a heat problem.
Click to expand...
the headers on the 289 in my '66 Mustang used to cause the starters to get cooked in no time (and then I'd get the same 'no cranking when hot' problem).
I simply painted the next starter white before installing it and I never had any more problems (believe it or not).
 
95teetee said:
the headers on the 289 in my '66 Mustang used to cause the starters to get cooked in no time (and then I'd get the same 'no cranking when hot' problem).
I simply painted the next starter white before installing it and I never had any more problems (believe it or not).
Click to expand...

Rusty told u what was wrong!
 
A used starter on a new motor, and you were having the same hot start issue when the starter was on the old motor? I think I know where I'd be looking.
 
krazykuda said:
Your typing is not that bad, just put in a blank line once in a while to separate the text and make it easier to read.

Cut this guy a little slack. Nobody is perfect.....
Click to expand...

x2 . good luck with your issue .
 
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