Steering Conversion Early A body

-
D

djwhog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
1,600
Reaction score
9
OK I have a 64 GT Dart going with a fresh 416 in place of the 273. I am thinking I want as much room as I can get for the TTI headers etc. and want to rid the Power Steering for a Manual box. What all do I need to do besides the box? Also on a side note the car is getting a 71 Dart front disc setup and I have the PST heavy duty tie rods, poly bushings etc etc. This should be an issues going manual correct?

Also who makes the best box on the market as far as the quality and feel of the box ? I want the feel you get in a rack car or a cop car and I no it will be some what stiff when not moving. How still are these quick ratio boxes, are they really hard to steer at a stop?

I plan no larger than a 15x6x 205 15 on the front.

thanks all!
 
You need a short "power-to-manual" column extender because the manual box is shorter, or an entire steering column from a manual steering car. Also if header clearance is a major issue, consider a borgeson u-joint instead of the pot coupler. Pretty sure somebody with a purple 65 did something similar, but for a slightly different reason. Do a search under Spitfire installation.

Beyond that, you need an early A-body manual pittman arm. There are aftermarket 16:1 boxes out there, or you could try to score a stock Formula S box. The aftermarket boxes have a grey iron housing instead of aluminum, but they bolt in.
 
Yes, you will need to change the steering shaft in the column. I do have the whole set up out of a 66 Dart if you are interested. Also do you have a floor shift or column shift. The one I have is a column shift.
 
I wouldn't mess with the column.Just get an extension. Check out firmfeel.com or flamingriver.com. I have the flaming river in my 64 Valiant. Nice piece.
 
ever hear of unisteer?? they are making mounts,,that bolt in to exsisiting holes to mount a rack and pinion,,,steering,, with NO bump steer,,you use all your exsisting holes from where all the factory steering stuff would normally bolt in,,, i seen it at chrysler at carlisle or the mopar nats 2006
when i talked to them they had the B and E body (naturally) ready to go,, and they were working on the A body conversion,,,its not cheap,,,but a killer set up,,, no welding,no steering box in the way,,i believe the kit is complete,,was around 1100.00 bucks,,,

and yes the flaming river box is a nice piece,,,
 
dart44072 thanks, what box did you go with in you car? How does the feel compare with stock PS?

thanks!
 
Another related question on the gear boxes. If I did stay with a power box:

I was told that basically all gear boxs manual and power are the same and will mount. I know you need an adapter for manual. However I know that some later models had the larger sector and I want to know if I get a power box from a 70 E body that has the firmer feel faster ratio will it work on a 64 Dart? Running a 71 Dart from disc system complete with TTI headers on a 416. I think the only issue I am aware of is the pitman arm. I know that the fast ratio arm will most likely hit the headers, but is there an arm that supports this size box on my setup?

I know it is suppose to also be an even swap on a 73-76 A body, but I do not know what other issues for the 64 running 71 parts.

thanks!
 
djwhog said:
Another related question on the gear boxes. If I did stay with a power box:

I was told that basically all gear boxs manual and power are the same and will mount. I know you need an adapter for manual. However I know that some later models had the larger sector and I want to know if I get a power box from a 70 E body that has the firmer feel faster ratio will it work on a 64 Dart? Running a 71 Dart from disc system complete with TTI headers on a 416. I think the only issue I am aware of is the pitman arm. I know that the fast ratio arm will most likely hit the headers, but is there an arm that supports this size box on my setup?

I know it is suppose to also be an even swap on a 73-76 A body, but I do not know what other issues for the 64 running 71 parts.

thanks!
Click to expand...

Well I just mocked up my engine compartment and I can't imagine having a PS unit in there with TTI headers. There's just barely enough room. See my thread My Dart Project and I have a pic that shows the manual box in relation to the TTI's. I too have a manual clean colum if you are interested.
 
dart4forte said:
Well I just mocked up my engine compartment and I can't imagine having a PS unit in there with TTI headers. There's just barely enough room. See my thread My Dart Project and I have a pic that shows the manual box in relation to the TTI's. I too have a manual clean colum if you are interested.
Click to expand...

Well you sure find out just changing one single part can cause a ton on conflicts!

Yes I am intreted PM me to let me know what all you have thanks! What box did you go with? And which oil pan is the Mildon you have and is that on a stroker engine? I see the lip people say to noth on the 66 and up cars K frame, but the 64 is round on my car, you would have to cut a lot wouldn't you? And is the drag link gonna clear your pan? I need to re-read your entire thread. I wanted the 7qt version but was told it hits the crank. So I went for a kevco 6qt and will do a cooler and ext filters to get to 8qts.


Here are more details on the front end parts that are involved on this swap:
:coffee2:
Yep I was even thinking of staying with the power steering for a few moments. I could have gotten a NOS 70 TA challenger gear box today from E-bay. Did a ton of research and found all the models A,B & E cars that use the exact same boxes, same pitman arms etc. up o 72. The issues I saw is that for some reason the early A bodies do use however the same pitman and idler arms for Power and manual steering. OH and 67 is a freak year all by it's self. And all pre 68 cars can not use the fast ratio arms without some serious mods, and then once again we get header interferance again.

So I think I should go manual as I 1st mentioned the thread on, even though I also learned the Federal early style pump would give a better feel with a tight box since it is a 2 stage pump.

Also I went through all my parts today that I bought a few years back (7)and forgot I not only picked up an entire 71 dart 4 piston 11" disc setup, upper lower arms, spindles etc. But I did buy all new parts from Just Suspension front and rear sway bars, the rear has been on, and all poly bushings, the larger tie rods like B cars uses to fit in the A body setup and new rotors, calipars, stainless lines the works,. Heck I dont recal now, but I even purchased new hubs for the rotors.

I just starting thinking today that maybe I should go with diff parts, but then if a person goes into the 73 up A body parts, most all B & E body stuff works, except rotors etc unless you change mounts etc. So rather then re-sell all the parts I have, I will stay with the small bolt early A body stuff, I think it will work just fine with a good gear box. I know I could swap the 8 3/4 axles, find a custom rotor etc. But I know the new Cragar SS's are coming out for small bolts in a matter of weeks.

I have new torsion bars too and I think I they are the 340 or 383 bars, but will have to look them up. It was back when they were only about $185 a set. I was reading in the older mopar suspension books and the book that was a huge yellow book reffered to as the Bible from Mopar all the parts to use for improved handling racing etc. But then again times have changed a bunch now! There is a ton of data in the older books. Most are no longer available any more...

I will follow your post too on the car. And I should have more details about pitman arm combos and part numbers of could and can work.

PS there are also some sweet early A bodies and TTI installs on Big Block Darts site too.

thanks all!
 
I'm sticking with my PS with the TTI's. I have a manual, just in case, from my parts car. I'm going to avoid all the BS with the tti install by building a low rise k-frame cradle for the engine/tranny/headers/PS/upper & lower control arms/disc brakes. Everything will be one unit. Just jack the car up and lower the body onto the complete assembly. 4 k-frame bolts and 4 tranny crossmember bolts and presto.....done. I'm just about finished with the jig already. Just need to get my cherry picker back from a buddy. I kinda like the PS. I've had manual before and will use it again if necessary.

The 65 Dart from BBD has PS by the way. Looks sweet.
 
daves66valiant said:
I'm sticking with my PS with the TTI's. I have a manual, just in case, from my parts car. I'm going to avoid all the BS with the tti install by building a low rise k-frame cradle for the engine/tranny/headers/PS/upper & lower control arms/disc brakes. Everything will be one unit. Just jack the car up and lower the body onto the complete assembly. 4 k-frame bolts and 4 tranny crossmember bolts and presto.....done. I'm just about finished with the jig already. Just need to get my cherry picker back from a buddy. I kinda like the PS. I've had manual before and will use it again if necessary.

The 65 Dart from BBD has PS by the way. Looks sweet.
Click to expand...

Yep I know what you mean, one part changed casues issues after issues. I would like to stay power in one respect, but with the manual I get more room and no pump, hoses less clutter etc. Will have a nice feel, but will be a stiff wheel to at a stop. Strange how many times I have seen the crosmember for the tranny going through all the post and TTI that say it needs cutting. Mine is factory flush on both sides and I have had dual 2.5 ex for ever on the car.

well good luck, I am off to make some pitman arm calls to cross ref a few more parts. Seems that a 63-65 has a uniqueness in terms of the arms and PS & man boxes all parts being = . But can still use later boxes, that said the later boxes also come in versions with larger sector shafts and some that give the cop car taxi cab steering tha the TA's had. But once again we are so limited on spce.

You are doing the right think lifting I think. I am already tight with a airgap intake, may hae to scoop tha car or look for a low pro air cleaner.

take care, please keep us posted and some pics.

thanks!
 
TA cars didn't have firm feel just fast ratio. The faster ratio was due to a longer pitman arm. The P/S box you have, if really an original TA car box has the internal stops closer to work with the longer arm (this would be a bad thing on anything else). The firmer reaction spring showed up about 79 in the Diplomat/Grand Fury cop cars.

Any Mopar steering box will physically bolt to a 63-66 K-member, but I believe the 63-66 pitman arm was for the smaller sector shaft only. In any event you must use the 63-66 pitman arm.

Why would you want power steering? It's heavy and not necessary on an early A. The original Formula S cars came with 16:1 manual steering only, and if you read an original road test, it was praised.
 
C130 Chief said:
TA cars didn't have firm feel just fast ratio. The faster ratio was due to a longer pitman arm. The P/S box you have, if really an original TA car box has the internal stops closer to work with the longer arm (this would be a bad thing on anything else). The firmer reaction spring showed up about 79 in the Diplomat/Grand Fury cop cars.

Any Mopar steering box will physically bolt to a 63-66 K-member, but I believe the 63-66 pitman arm was for the smaller sector shaft only. In any event you must use the 63-66 pitman arm.

Why would you want power steering? It's heavy and not necessary on an early A. The original Formula S cars came with 16:1 manual steering only, and if you read an original road test, it was praised.
Click to expand...
Not necessary but I would have to say it is a preference for the feeling of PS. At least there is always the option and thankfully, tti can accomodate both. :thumbup:
 
djwhog said:
Well you sure find out just changing one single part can cause a ton on conflicts!

Yes I am intreted PM me to let me know what all you have thanks! What box did you go with? And which oil pan is the Mildon you have and is that on a stroker engine? I see the lip people say to noth on the 66 and up cars K frame, but the 64 is round on my car, you would have to cut a lot wouldn't you? And is the drag link gonna clear your pan? I need to re-read your entire thread. I wanted the 7qt version but was told it hits the crank. So I went for a kevco 6qt and will do a cooler and ext filters to get to 8qts.


Here are more details on the front end parts that are involved on this swap:
:coffee2:
Yep I was even thinking of staying with the power steering for a few moments. I could have gotten a NOS 70 TA challenger gear box today from E-bay. Did a ton of research and found all the models A,B & E cars that use the exact same boxes, same pitman arms etc. up o 72. The issues I saw is that for some reason the early A bodies do use however the same pitman and idler arms for Power and manual steering. OH and 67 is a freak year all by it's self. And all pre 68 cars can not use the fast ratio arms without some serious mods, and then once again we get header interferance again.

So I think I should go manual as I 1st mentioned the thread on, even though I also learned the Federal early style pump would give a better feel with a tight box since it is a 2 stage pump.

Also I went through all my parts today that I bought a few years back (7)and forgot I not only picked up an entire 71 dart 4 piston 11" disc setup, upper lower arms, spindles etc. But I did buy all new parts from Just Suspension front and rear sway bars, the rear has been on, and all poly bushings, the larger tie rods like B cars uses to fit in the A body setup and new rotors, calipars, stainless lines the works,. Heck I dont recal now, but I even purchased new hubs for the rotors.

I just starting thinking today that maybe I should go with diff parts, but then if a person goes into the 73 up A body parts, most all B & E body stuff works, except rotors etc unless you change mounts etc. So rather then re-sell all the parts I have, I will stay with the small bolt early A body stuff, I think it will work just fine with a good gear box. I know I could swap the 8 3/4 axles, find a custom rotor etc. But I know the new Cragar SS's are coming out for small bolts in a matter of weeks.

I have new torsion bars too and I think I they are the 340 or 383 bars, but will have to look them up. It was back when they were only about $185 a set. I was reading in the older mopar suspension books and the book that was a huge yellow book reffered to as the Bible from Mopar all the parts to use for improved handling racing etc. But then again times have changed a bunch now! There is a ton of data in the older books. Most are no longer available any more...

I will follow your post too on the car. And I should have more details about pitman arm combos and part numbers of could and can work.

PS there are also some sweet early A bodies and TTI installs on Big Block Darts site too.

thanks all!
Click to expand...

I,m running the Milodon pan. we did a test fit yesterday and the pan hits the curved part of the K frame. It will have to go. i'm meeting with a buddy of mine that does fabrication.
 
C130 Chief said:
Why would you want power steering? It's heavy and not necessary on an early A. The original Formula S cars came with 16:1 manual steering only, and if you read an original road test, it was praised.
Click to expand...
Fast ratio manual boxes are not that easy to find. Most people would want to use a "granny" manual box anyways, since its easier to steer.

Don't use a fast ratio pitman (T/A) arms unless you can buy the matching idler arm. The original T/A's didn't have a matching idler arm. It was a flaw.
 
I have manual steering with a 16:1 fast ratio box in my '65 Barracuda. It came that way but I had to get a new box because it was damaged. Got it from Firm Feel. There is no debate with me, this is the only way to go.

You will never get me into anything without 16:1 manual steering. Yes it's hard to parallel park sometimes, but on the road it's the best feeling in the world. I can turn corners with one hand, holding my Starbucks in the other.

And one benefit is, my wife is scared to drive the car....doesn't bother me at all! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top