Steering coupler question

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EDMOPAR

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Hi, everyone, rebuilding my steering column/shaft, (1976 plymouth duster, the column is from another car, not sure what year) car was originally a 3-speed/floor, have taken an automatic column and cut out shift indicator and shift arm mount,(going to make it floor shift) was going to rebuild coupler but I saw where flaming river had a coupler set that they said would replace the rag joint,(are these for older models) they have one for manual and one for power, i have power steering, does any know if this is better than the original coupler and will it perform better, thanks, these are the only pics I had today of column (as taken out of car)
 
There isn't going to be a huge performance difference in what connects to 2 shafts. There are 2 main reasons folks invest in the universal type connection. The stock box coupling interfears with header fitment. The stock box coupling can be a pain to rebuild, most common problem is getting the cap to stay on it.
 
I replaced mine with one from Bryke Racing. They are a circle track supplier, and their prices are much more reasonable. Mine was manual steering and I think it was 3/4 round to 3/4 36 spline. I believe the power steering shafts are 1 inch, not sure about the splines on the box. They have a number of different combinations.
 

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Uh, that's not going to work. I know A-body's are set up pretty straight, but it has to have SOME kind of joint...

The other issue, and this goes for the steering u-joint as well, is that steering u-joints with a 3/4" round side are intended to be welded onto the steering shaft- they're racing parts. So, when you drill it and bolt/pin it to the end of the shaft, you have to be pretty precise. Not hand drill precise. If you use a pin, it needs to be machinist precise. The bolt attachment above would help with that a little if you thread it, as that takes some of the play out of the hole. But, any play in that bolt/pin attachment will lead to slop, and will eventually wear out the steering shaft. And unlike a DD attachment, the pin or bolt is the only thing keeping the steering shaft from spinning in the joint. If the pin slides out because it wasn't a press fit and wears out the shaft, or the bolt backs out, the shaft spins and your steering fails. If the set screws back out of a DD coupler, the steering still works.
 
Prove it.

There's an angle between the steering shaft and the steering box. You can see it in this picture of my car. It's slight, but its NOT straight on. I put some lines to highlight this fact. The lines aren't perfect, but the angle is there.
 

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From another thread. Again, obviously not a straight line between the input shaft and the steering shaft.

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And your solid coupler leaves absolutely no room for any body flex. Your steering box is bolted to the K frame. Your steering shaft is bolted to the dash by way of the steering column. Do you think the dash and the K frame always move perfectly in line with each other?

What's the economical solution?

This is the most economical solution.

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BUT, its not without issues. I know folks run these on their cars just like this. But, my .02. That hole needs to be precise, ie, not drilled with a hand drill, and probably not even drilled on a press. Especially for a pin fit, that needs to be an interference fit. For a bolt, maybe a little less so if you thread the steering shaft. But, you may still get wear at the bolt/pin.

It also doesn't address body flex at the coupler, which is why the stock coupler slides up and down. I don't think that's a big deal, because there really isn't much of an angle there. But it could definitely wear the steering u joint, or the steering box, faster than it would with a sliding joint.
 
I have to tell you guys that I believe that NOT ONLY the angle is an issue. You don't think there's some flex between the K and the body/ column on a hard bump, etc? The factory coupler SLIDES quite a ways, and even other (brand) cars, and vans, which use the flat washer "rag" coupler will move, say, + / - 1/4" or so with no problem.

These U joint setups give you ZERO axial (in / out) movement, and may damage the column, or "work" the setscrews loose and wear the box spines.
 
And your solid coupler leaves absolutely no room for any body flex. Your steering box is bolted to the K frame. Your steering shaft is bolted to the dash by way of the steering column. Do you think the dash and the K frame always move perfectly in line with each other?

We both "hit" the same time, LOL
 
I have to tell you guys that I believe that NOT ONLY the angle is an issue. You don't think there's some flex between the K and the body/ column on a hard bump, etc? The factory coupler SLIDES quite a ways, and even other (brand) cars, and vans, which use the flat washer "rag" coupler will move, say, + / - 1/4" or so with no problem.

These U joint setups give you ZERO axial (in / out) movement, and may damage the column, or "work" the setscrews loose and wear the box spines.

Yes. The sliding stock coupler eliminates wear on the coupler and stress on the steering input shaft. I think it slides A LOT more than it has to, but something there should probably slide.

That's why I went through all the trouble to attach a telescoping shaft into my steering shaft when I put in the steering u-joint. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=228107

I know that guys run just the steering joint, and with low mile cars that's probably an option. But if you put the kind of miles I put on mine as a daily driver, eventually something will wear out. Hopefully the steering u joint, but there's also the possibility of wearing out the input shaft bushings in the steering box. Which will cause a leak at the seal, and sloppy steering. There's a reason the factory put a complicated sliding, articulating joint there. It definitely wasn't to save money.

We both "hit" the same time, LOL
:D
 
Well, over-thought semantics aside, the main reason most go this way is their tired of the header hitting it, the seal leaking, or not staying put and tightening the link between the steering.

Screw the rest of the "if's". The benefit outweighs the problems that don't exist.

Pushed, steel flexes, it doesn't shatter. If the u-joint wears out, like the rest of the car does, you replace the thing. Big deals.
 
The stock steering shaft is not solid, the lower solid portion telescopes inside an upper tube. The only thing holding it in place is a pair of nylon shear pins which usually break loose as soon as you disassamble the column, or at least they did on mine. The u-joint is bolted to the lower shaft and the set screw retains it on the steering box spline. Any up and down movement simply moves the solid shaft inside the upper tube.
 
Well, over-thought semantics aside, the main reason most go this way is their tired of the header hitting it, the seal leaking, or not staying put and tightening the link between the steering.

Screw the rest of the "if's". The benefit outweighs the problems that don't exist.

Pushed, steel flexes, it doesn't shatter. If the u-joint wears out, like the rest of the car does, you replace the thing. Big deals.

Nice attitude. I'm aware of why most people do this conversion, the stock joint is usually in the way of the headers somehow. And the cap falls off and they're a pain to service. Which is why *I* did the conversion as well.

If you think the u-joint will wear out first, go for it. I tend to think the nice soft steering box bushings will wear out faster, especially if you have a bushed steering box and not a bearing steering box (most are bushed). These cars FLEX. A lot. The steering U-joint doesn't if it can't slide up and down. If you think that's over-thought semantics, then don't worry about it. Your car. 8)

The stock steering shaft is not solid, the lower solid portion telescopes inside an upper tube. The only thing holding it in place is a pair of nylon shear pins which usually break loose as soon as you disassamble the column, or at least they did on mine. The u-joint is bolted to the lower shaft and the set screw retains it on the steering box spline. Any up and down movement simply moves the solid shaft inside the upper tube.

Yes, this is true. The original shaft is NOT solid, it has a collapsing section. But, that section is between the C clip'd end at the steering wheel and the bearing at the lower column. Which means its out of the loop as long as the lower bearing and upper c-clips are in place and doing their job.

Also, while that section is made to collapse, it doesn't actually slide very easily. It's just supposed to move in an accident. By comparison, the stock coupler slides MUCH easier. And the telescoping section that I added to the bottom of the steering shaft on my car slides easier than the collapsable upper section too. Plus, on my upgrade the lower column bearing is attached with set screws to the steering shaft, so, the collapsable section is even further isolated than stock. It would still move in an accident, but its not in the loop for body flex.

Look, I don't care how any one modifies their car. I put my modification up on the board so that others could see what I did and why. And I point out the issues with eliminating the slip joint because they are real. How long it takes to wear out the u-joint, or the steering box, or the column bearings, I honestly don't know. Maybe never considering how infrequently a lot of these cars get used. Regardless, I think people that want to do this mod should be aware of the potential issues.
 
After reading all this I recalled all the power steering boxes I've seen with their input shaft moving in and out through the upper seal, some as much as a 1/4 inch travel there.
Made my decision, If I ever have a universal joint there it will be to a steering rack and require a relief angle.
I may go ahead and buy one of those fancy molded caps for the box coupling ( If I can find the link again ). It might come in handy later.
Happy moparing
 
On full tube stock cars theres probably no need for a sliding coupling, but on our street cars there needs to be a sliding coupling because of flex. The weakest link in this chain if you dont use a sliding coupling with a u joint will most likely be the bearings in the top and bottom of the steering column. They are not a thrust type of bearing, but a simple ball bearing type. If i ever go this route, with a u joint setup, tho i highly doubt it since i just rebuilt my stock lower joint assembly. I will use a sliding shaft with the u joint just like 72blunblu did.

He is 100% correct in stating that the sliding shaft is needed because of chassis and body flex

Newtons laws. The third one i believe. Irresistable force, and immovable object. The chassis flex tho it can be minimized is still there. This is your irresistable force, the u joint and steering box is the immovable object, it will push the shaft forward and back as everything moves from chassis flex, and will move the shaft in and out in the column without a sliding shaft.
 
Sorry if I came across like an ***, maybe I'm being too cavalier about all of this.

The 'u' joint style should help with body articulation and flex. No? Do our cars really flex that much up and down in the front? Wouldn't the fenders be hitting the doors?

I'm going to do the mod, take the consequences, and let y'all know after 10,000 miles.
 
Your question is valid, there isnt much flex, but its there, and because its there you have to provide a way to work with it. We used a sliding coupling on my friends ratrod project a few years back. It was 1963 dodge town panel with a 79 dodge 1/2 ton pickup chassis under it. Bought a sliding coupling with ujoint designed for GMsteering box which the 79 used. And mated it with a late model chrysler tilt column. Full frame chassis, seperate body.
 
I've got one for you, could you leave the splined end free, lube it up and allow a 1/4" or so in and out play like a transmission? That splined end is, lets see *checks* around 1" not counting the additional 1/4" foot it has going into the box.
 
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