Steering Rack Leaking

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L

Lgs

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Spokane, WA
I have a new RMS front end in my 1973 Duster. This includes a Flaming River rack. To date, I have replaced the rack three times all due to leaking. I have also replaced the pump and check valve (to a lower pressure), replaced all the hoses, drained and replaced the fluid. Yesterday we tried a different rack. We started the car, backed it off of the rack, turned the wheel and blew the seals out of the rack. Pressure has been tested both on the bench and in the car at idle - 1750 RPM without any signs of leaking. Once in the car, the leaking begins. OPEN to any - all ideas / suggestions as this is getting out of control.
 
Lgs said:
I have a new RMS front end in my 1973 Duster. This includes a Flaming River rack. To date, I have replaced the rack three times all due to leaking. I have also replaced the pump and check valve (to a lower pressure), replaced all the hoses, drained and replaced the fluid. Yesterday we tried a different rack. We started the car, backed it off of the rack, turned the wheel and blew the seals out of the rack. Pressure has been tested both on the bench and in the car at idle - 1750 RPM without any signs of leaking. Once in the car, the leaking begins. OPEN to any - all ideas / suggestions as this is getting out of control.
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Have you tested the pressure during turns in the car?
 
How tight is you front end? I could be the stack of a tight front end and the traction of the tires or any other friction putting stress on the rack?
 
dano said:
How tight is you front end? I could be the stack of a tight front end and the traction of the tires or any other friction putting stress on the rack?
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Can't answer this with numbers. The steering performs great without hesitation or resistance. Alignment and toe in are all easy to set and within limits without anything exceptional taking place. When I ordered the RMS suspension, it was communicated at the onset that I was running a 2007 5.7 HEMI so to your point I am hopeful RMS took the weight of that engine into consideration.....may be a question worth asking.
 
Lgs said:
Mustang II, Flaming River
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Ok, so Pinto rack. Obviously, if the pressures are right and you say they are, their racks are junk. If I were you I would make sure there's nothing custom about it, that it IS a bonifide Pinto/Rustang II rack. If it is, send that POS back and get a run of the mill reman from like Autozone. But get a good brand reman. A1 Cardone for instance. They bore out their reman racks and press a steel sleeve into the rack. They generally last a long time.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Have you tested the pressure during turns in the car?
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Further to your question.....with a pressure relief valve set at 800 PSI, I don't see where the idea of over pressure comes into play. Logically even if a person had a pump capable of say 50,000 PSI, the pressure relief valve should work and by pass once it hits that level. Unless there is too much volume by-passing and over filling the rack I don't see how it would matter.
 
Lgs said:
Further to your question.....with a pressure relief valve set at 800 PSI, I don't see where the idea of over pressure comes into play. Logically even if a person had a pump capable of say 50,000 PSI, the pressure relief valve should work and by pass once it hits that level. Unless there is too much volume by-passing and over filling the rack I don't see how it would matter.
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What pump are you using?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok, so Pinto rack. Obviously, if the pressures are right and you say they are, their racks are junk. If I were you I would make sure there's nothing custom about it, that it IS a bonifide Pinto/Rustang II rack. If it is, send that POS back and get a run of the mill reman from like Autozone. But get a good brand reman. A1 Cardone for instance. They bore out their reman racks and press a steel sleeve into the rack. They generally last a long time.
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We just installed a Carbone yesterday and it didn't make it 30 feet. The mechanic now has two more - TCI and a Detroit Speed. Hate to keep changing as doesn't seem to be addressing the problem....
 
Lgs said:
We just installed a Carbone yesterday and it didn't make it 30 feet. The mechanic now has two more - TCI and a Detroit Speed. Hate to keep changing as doesn't seem to be addressing the problem....
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Yeah, I think now the problem is "elsewhere". I wonder if somehow your pressure gauge is incorrect OR if it is "somehow" not seeing all the pressure? Just thinkin out loud. Something's up somewhere.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah, I think now the problem is "elsewhere". I wonder if somehow your pressure gauge is incorrect OR if it is "somehow" not seeing all the pressure? Just thinkin out loud. Something's up somewhere.
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I don't know. Bill Reilly tested the new pump and rack together on the bench with a pressure gauge in line. Then when I received the components, did the same thing only on the car; broke the pressure line from pump to rack to install the temporary gauge. Both set up's showed the same results when turned to full position either right or left.

Also read on another posting the concept of over heating the pump. They state should not exceed 275 degrees. That sounded like a viable reason until yesterday when the car itself wasn't even up to temperature; started on the lift and backed out before blowing seals.

Such a simple operation and yet keep seeing the same results....Appreciate all your time and suggestions.
 
I have a 5.7 with a junkyard Durango pump. . Did you install a cooler, don’t know if that makes a difference. I installed a cooler on mine.
 
Stupid question but is the high side connected to the low side. That will definitely blow the seals(I personally know someone that happened too..... let’s just say a close friend). Is the pulley factory size or smaller. Are the hose sizes correct.
I know how frustrating this is. Especially taking it out and putting it back in. The 5.7 weighs as much as a slant 6.
 
loganscuda said:
Stupid question but is the high side connected to the low side. That will definitely blow the seals(I personally know someone that happened too..... let’s just say a close friend). Is the pulley factory size or smaller. Are the hose sizes correct.
I know how frustrating this is. Especially taking it out and putting it back in. The 5.7 weighs as much as a slant 6.
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At the onset we checked the hoses. Typically the steering will auto rotate if the hoses are switched but unfortunately not the case here. The hoses match the fitting sizes so not much room for error here. It was thought of by others that maybe we were over spinning the motor due to the supercharger, BUT we have used the factory pulley's consistently. AND, logically I still scratch my head when we get into this discussion as you would think....that no matter what RPM or pressure is being run, the check valve would do its job and relieve any exceeding pressure.
 
loganscuda said:
I have a 5.7 with a junkyard Durango pump. . Did you install a cooler, don’t know if that makes a difference. I installed a cooler on mine.
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No. I do not have a tranny cooler or anything additional to cool the PS fluid. The temperature issue has my attention and want to use a gun to shoot both the pump, rack, and overflow just to make sure they are all within operating range.
 
Ideally it should be that hot yet. Was the system fully bled with tires off the ground moving the steering wheel lock to lock to burp the system?

Like Rusty I'm thinking out loud too....something ain't right.

OK, dumb question. What fluid are you using?
 
dano said:
Ideally it should be that hot yet. Was the system fully bled with tires off the ground moving the steering wheel lock to lock to burp the system?

Like Rusty I'm thinking out loud too....something ain't right.

OK, dumb question. What fluid are you using?
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I read this earlier and know when we changed to the third rack, we did not burp or purge the rack. I have passed this on to my mechanic to assure we are doing this for the next rack.

As for the fluid, not a dumb question at all as this came up several times.....I for one would not have thought a different fluid would make the kind of impact we are talking about, HOWEVER Bill Reilly felt differently. Originally I used an O'Reilly store brand. Bill suggested we drain the system and use NAPA's brand as he stated a friend of his had inside knowledge that the NAPA brand is made by a top lubrication manufacturer. So, that is what I am using now....
 
Lgs said:
I read this earlier and know when we changed to the third rack, we did not burp or purge the rack. I have passed this on to my mechanic to assure we are doing this for the next rack.

As for the fluid, not a dumb question at all as this came up several times.....I for one would not have thought a different fluid would make the kind of impact we are talking about, HOWEVER Bill Reilly felt differently. Originally I used an O'Reilly store brand. Bill suggested we drain the system and use NAPA's brand as he stated a friend of his had inside knowledge that the NAPA brand is made by a top lubrication manufacturer. So, that is what I am using now....
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And my only thought on the burping of the system was if there were trapped air and the fluid was causing a inrush of pressure and the air not escaping the system becoming pressurized and expanding compounding the system pressure. Much like an intensifier, and something had to give. Again just a theory. Fluid viscosity will effect the pumping pressure.

I've installed many racks and pumps and have never had this issue come up. Hell the only vehicle I actually burped properly was a 2001 Ram 2500 4x4 with 5.7 Cummins. It was so heavy in the front we had to jack it up to get the fluid to circulate.
 
dano said:
And my only thought on the burping of the system was if there were trapped air and the fluid was causing a inrush of pressure and the air not escaping the system becoming pressurized and expanding compounding the system pressure. Much like an intensifier, and something had to give. Again just a theory. Fluid viscosity will effect the pumping pressure.

I've installed many racks and pumps and have never had this issue come up. Hell the only vehicle I actually burped properly was a 2001 Ram 2500 4x4 with 5.7 Cummins. It was so heavy in the front we had to jack it up to get the fluid to circulate.
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I don't want to jinx what is working so will preface this by saying for right now..... we have a remanned unit installed and as of today and 60 miles on the car, it is working and not leaking. This is number 5..... Since the last post, we installed a remanned unit that was suspect from the start as the box looked like it had been kicked down the road a couple times prior. It lasted all of 35 feet before spreading fluid all over. This latest one is from O'Reilly Auto Parts and is a Master-Pro....never heard of before. In any case, I really don't care as long as it doesn't leak any more.
 
Lgs said:
I don't want to jinx what is working so will preface this by saying for right now..... we have a remanned unit installed and as of today and 60 miles on the car, it is working and not leaking. This is number 5..... Since the last post, we installed a remanned unit that was suspect from the start as the box looked like it had been kicked down the road a couple times prior. It lasted all of 35 feet before spreading fluid all over. This latest one is from O'Reilly Auto Parts and is a Master-Pro....never heard of before. In any case, I really don't care as long as it doesn't leak any more.
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Can a manual rack and pinion be rebuilt ? Mine has a lot of slop in it -----------------
Are their numbers to identify what kind it is ?
 
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bearing adjuster? Or have you tried that already....
 
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