Stroker Performance Review

Mopar Racers Forum

  1. yellow rose

    yellow rose Master Of Insanity

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    Do you mind posting a link to your thread where you played with power valve timing?

    That’s an awesome thread and it could help the OP get a better handle on how that system works.

    TIA
     
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    • PRH

      PRH Well-Known Member

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      Where I would go from here.......

      -Set valve lash hot
      -upgrade to at least 3/8” fuel line, ditch the mechanical pump
      -set the carb up closer to how it came ootb(less split), jet for mid/hi-12’s@wot, then tune for best mph
      -shim valve springs to 1.800”
      -get a real converter

      The speed is way off from what one would expect looking at the sum of the parts.

      I agree with YR...... this is exactly why you dyno a new, unknown combo.
      Jetting, timing, lash, valve spring compatibility would all be known....... as well as having a better handle proper converter selection and shift point.
       
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      • Toluene56

        Toluene56 Well-Known Member

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        I build my own... But usually use AIMs in Reno to get machine work done. Don't really trust anyone out here for Mopar stuff. And by out here I mean Reno/sparks northern nevada.
         
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        • SpeedThrills

          SpeedThrills FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          OP says they only got a couple runs on it.

          I'm in the same camp as some others; tune it more with the basic, less expensive (even free) things suggested here, then go from there.
           
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          • '63GT

            '63GT Well-Known Member

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            your inbox is full :)
             
          • Toluene56

            Toluene56 Well-Known Member

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            Should be fixed.
             
          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            Careful Forum suggestions are the quickest way to get your pockets emptied! And you'll gain what 5 miles an hour is the hope? Maybe 6 or 7?...
            My first question would be is this the first two passes the driver has ever taken on a track? And also with a car this fast? Or is this a season drag racer?...
            Or you could just go ahead and change your carburetor your fuel lines your fuel pump shim your springs change your converter and don't forget to switch out that eagle cast crank LOL..
            I like the comment that it didn't blow up! LOL...
            My opinion is to have fun with what you built and just tune what you have and enjoy it for a while... And don't get caught up on numbers...
             
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            • Garrett Ellison

              Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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              Touche'! Well Played j par, Well played....
               
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              • Ivoryk3ys78

                Ivoryk3ys78 Well-Known Member

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                Seasoned driver. It has been quite a bit of years since my brother was at the track but years ago we use to go multiple times a year with his 67 Plymouth Satellite which is capable of high 11s.

                Yeah will work with what I have for a while and make no big changes. Make sure cylinder pressure checks out and lash looks okay etc. With only 2 passes we haven't had any chance to try anything different at the track.


                 
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                • pittsburghracer

                  pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Even back in my street, street strip days I like to build for the future. When I switched from a four speed to an automatic I did lots of reading. Knowing I would someday have a big block I went with a 727 transmission as the converter I bought for the small block would work for a big block. Turbo Action was the converter of choice for the Mopar guys back then so I bought a 4200 for the street strip combo. That got me into the 11.80’s back in the 1970’s. Then I used it behind my 440 in a 1969 Dart to get into the low 10’s. Then a famous J converter got me into the 9’s. Buying a good converter is s great investment.
                   
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                  • justinp61

                    justinp61 Well-Known Member

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                    Have you actually checked the flash stall on the converter? I'd think it would 60' better than 1.71 even with the converter that's in it. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge that you can see while going down track? I'm guessing you have the secondary PV plugged? My engine pulls around 3" of vacuum at idle and IIRC there is a 6" PV on the primary side with the secondary plugged.

                    My current engine and the one before it was happier with 21-22° initial timing than 15-18°. Do you know anyone with a 850 or 950 that you can borrow to see how the car reacts? Don't be afraid to try different shift points, it'll let you know where it's happiest. Try leaving at idle and see if the converter works better.

                    Keep after at it, you'll get it tuned up. :BangHead:
                     
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                    • 12many

                      12many If I Only Had The Cash.......

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                      This here, not “definitive” but may be useful to some: Power Valve Selection: The Definitive Answer
                       
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                      • j par

                        j par Well-hung Member

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                        Being it's been a quite a number of years and a new car to the driver there could be a lot of improvement there as well. Steven Pittsburgh up there in one of his threads felt a little rusty after just a short time out of his own car let alone somebody's been a long time in a new car to them. Especially being a long time in between even being in the car at the drag strip can get the butterflies worked up. I like your approach of doing what you can with what you have. At least for this season get some enjoyment out of it...
                        Before you go rippin the crank out LOL...
                         
                      • j par

                        j par Well-hung Member

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                        Thank you I have my moments...
                         
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                        • flyfish

                          flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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                          Ok Jpar, I'll bite (since you are obviously fishing for a response by mentioning it twice)....

                          He asked for feedback about his combo...the crank and converter don't match up with the other components (most everything is geared toward a drag car making ~500-550hp). The wrong converter will only make the car slow, but won't hurt anything.....the cast Eagle crank, if/when it fails it will take quite a few of those high dollar parts along with it (rods, pistons, block, heads, pushrods, etc.). Does it suck to think about replacing an internal engine component on a new build, YES...but if it were me, I would not run it (just my opinion).

                          Luckily, the OP is down on power bigtime, otherwise it may have already let go.......or it may last 10+ years, who knows....I just know that they (Eagle) had many issues with that specific crank in the past and I would not trust it.

                          Would I pull the crank out of my engine off the advice of some dude on the internet...heck no!....but if I researched things and found that those points were valid I may consider. To each their own, take it or leave it, won't bother me either way....Jpar ignored a lot of advice (mine and others) years ago building his stroker, and now has the self proclaimed "slowest stroker on the internet"....but that's ok, he built it, and he enjoy's it, so all is well. NOT saying you should follow blindly all the advice given by folks....Jpar is correct that other people will help you spend your money REALLY fast (I fell victim to that once upon a time), just saying do your research and enjoy what you've got.

                          Sorry, got really long winded for some reason, lol.
                           
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                          • B3422w5

                            B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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                            Regards the Eagle cast cranks.
                            Refer back to my comments on this thread regards having a stroker that went 11.70’s( one season, raced it a ton) then made the changes i outlined, ran 10.74 best( typically 10.90’s) raced it thst way two full seasons pretty much every nice weekend.
                            In short, i put probably 500-600 passes on that Eagle cast crank 416 combo. 2 of 3 seasons running 10’s, 1 season running 11’s. All passes footbrake.
                            After the 3rd season of this short block being together, over the next winter, added ported W5 heads to the top end to replace the eddie top end.
                            Immediately jumped to 10.30’s... this at 3350 pounds. Not a light car.
                            Anyhow, late August, towards the end of the 4th season beating on that cast crank, and now running 10.30’s as i said above, the cast crank let go just after shifting from 1st to second. Carnage.
                            So... got probably 700 1/4 mile passes on that cast crank before it let go, at ever more increasing horsepower levels.
                            Guess my thoughts are, as the OP is primarily a streeter, likely will never make( or at least anytime soon) 700 full passes on it( back then 100% of my laps were 1/4 zero 1/8) ..
                            Replacing the crank would be WAY down on my list of must do’s... from personal experience. Not to mention the Eagle cast unit nowadays might be of better quality than 18 or so years ago when mine broke after 4 race seasons
                             
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                            • pittsburghracer

                              pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              I sold I nice engine because of a cast crank. My buddy built a 416(340 based) engine with an Eagle crank. He was a little scared so he bought a cast Scat crank and then he never assembled it. I bought the block, crank, Scat Rods, cam, Wiseco forged pistons, oil pan and pump and a few other goodies. I didn’t really want it but the price twisted my arm. Knowing I would build it as a high 9, low 10 engine I had second thoughts and advertised it for sale. A guy from Massachusetts made a long road trip to pick it up. I honestly feel safer with a factory cast 360 crank at that ET. I love the huge radius on the stock 360 cranks.
                               
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                              • Ivoryk3ys78

                                Ivoryk3ys78 Well-Known Member

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                                I appreciate what your saying and I did ask for feedback and welcome all of it. I always try to do the best research I can before deciding on things like this. In this case before I bought the crank and had everything back and balanced from the machine shop and going into the engine I didn't come across the old posts talking about issues with the crank. At the time I purchased it I actually was looking for the Scat crank and was having trouble finding it not in a spinning assembly kit. I wasn't using a kit because I could not find one with the pistons I wanted.

                                I can only hope the metallurgy or whatever issues they had have been addressed. B3's post certainly offers some comfort.

                                So if I had come across those posts earlier on they would not have given me warm and fuzzys and I would not have ordered it. I don't see me tearing the engine down though based on a possible issues with a cast crank.

                                At this point need to dance with the one who brung you and hope she is a better dance partner then she has been for some others.



                                 
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                                • flyfish

                                  flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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                                  Understandable, and I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully the crank is solid and you never have any issues with it.
                                   
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                                  • Ivoryk3ys78

                                    Ivoryk3ys78 Well-Known Member

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                                    I spoke to Eric at Howards cams today. He said with the 120 seat pressure at 1.9 install height it is borderline and he would like to see 15 or so more lbs. He said he would like to see 135/350 area. It is right at 350 open right now. So that is one thing that could be addressed with some shimming to eliminate that as a possible issue.


                                    Replacing the stock volume fuel pump with a Carter strip pump and 3/8 lines nad pickup is another. We will run compression tests and check lash , etc and when we get to the track again will have antoher carb on hand to test.

                                    I would say roughly the engine is down 75-100hp from where someone would reasonably expect it to be.

                                    Hopefully we will figure it out.

                                    The advice on the converter seems sound amd kanes a lot of sense to me. However my main concern is the MPH/HP. If it was a mild street build I would be thrilled but it is not.
                                     
                                  • '63GT

                                    '63GT Well-Known Member

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                                    I can attest to the spring recommendations Eric gave you.. I have the same cam with 1.6 rockers in a 360. The springs I WAS running, went away, and I started having problems.
                                    In fact, it never was completely right at 135/340. I now have it set with new springs at 145/390, and seems to be fine. The track will tell.
                                     
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                                    • Ivoryk3ys78

                                      Ivoryk3ys78 Well-Known Member

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                                      This is very helpful. Thank you

                                      If the PAC springs that come with the heads are what they are suppose to be then a .060 shim should put it at around 143/373. It should be right at 320/350 now.

                                       
                                    • 70aarcuda

                                      70aarcuda Master Hoader of SBM FABO Gold Member

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                                      Those are PAC 1903 springs.....I shimmed mind down to 1.80 ...which will get you to 145 lbs on the seat...,,,,
                                       
                                    • Ivoryk3ys78

                                      Ivoryk3ys78 Well-Known Member

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                                      Could you explain this to me. It says 390 per inch so wouldn't going from 1.9 to 1.8 increase it by 39lbs or is there something I am missing or not understanding?

                                       
                                    • yellow rose

                                      yellow rose Master Of Insanity

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                                      It’s spring rate times the amount of height decrease or increase PLUS/minus the installed height seat load. So your math is correct. Shimming .100 down is a 39 pound INCREASE in spring load.

                                      .100 is a TON of shims. .060 gets you another 24 pounds. .030 gets you 12.
                                       
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