Timing Chain Replacement Question

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WmBaldwin57

WmBaldwin57

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I have the engine out cleaning everything and replacing the likely parts before I put it back in (water pump, timing chain, etc). When I removed the timing cover I noticed the small gear was lined up perfectly, the large gear was exactly 180 degrees off. Car was running fine when I removed, and I had everything lined up, dist. pointing to #1 and all. So now, what do I do, the large gear will only fit on one way. Do I correct it and if so now what do I do to the Dist, turn it 180degees too? Second question, when I removed the small gear I noticed there was a concave ring around the shaft about where the front of the gear would have been, is there something that goes in there to hold the gear on? Third question, I hadn't thought about replacing the Oil Seal on the chain case cover, should I? By the way, you can probably tell by my questions I'm a fake gear head :read2:
Thanks Bill
 
no problem at all. with the dots lined up opposite one another,#6 is at TDC.
ifyou have # 1 at TDC,exactly the opposite will be what you see. 180 deg opposed.see this post from Slantsix.org click here
fit it up with the dots aligned is the best way to do it.

regards,Rod:happy10:
 
The ring is the oil slinger. I must go on with the dish forward away from the engine. This will look backward. If you put it on with the dish toward the engine it will be eaton by the timing chain and destroy the engine.
Replace the oil seal while you have it apart.
Walpolla covered you first question.
Frank
 
walpolla said:
no problem at all. with the dots lined up opposite one another,#6 is at TDC.
ifyou have # 1 at TDC,exactly the opposite will be what you see. 180 deg opposed.see this post from Slantsix.org click here
fit it up with the dots aligned is the best way to do it.

regards,Rod:happy10:
Click to expand...


So once I align the dots, should I pull the distributor and rotate 180 degrees so it will be back at #1, or am I completely lost here :)
 
This gets a little confusing. When the dots on the timing sprockets are lined up close together, the engine is actually at #6 top center compression, and the distributer rotor should be pointing to number 6 on the dist cap.
 
Wait a minute! The way I read this, the cam gear mark was 180 deg. from the crank gear at TDC comp stroke, correct? This is not wrong, the crank turns 2 times for ever 1 of the cam. just turn the crank 1 revolution and they will be lined up to re-install the gears. The engine will be on TDC #1 exhaust stroke which is correct for installing the gears. Both marks are suppose to point up when it is on TDC #1 comp stroke.

If you move your dist. it will be off.
 
sorry to jump in but I have the same problem with my '73 Dodge Swinger. I started by turning the engine by hand so that the #1 Spark plug is all the way at its peak on top dead center. I also looked at the rotor inside the dis. cap and it was pointing to number one Spark plug wire.


here is the are that got confusing, what I took the timing chain cover off I notice that it wasn't point to point on the gears. it was both going up side-ways at the same direction. I turn the big gear by hand without disturbing the small one. I got it point to point but the rotor is pointing to the #6 spark plug wire. I turned it again to let it sit on the #1 spark plug wire and it became the same as before not pointing point to point.


I wanted to know if I leave it the way it is on 10 oclock both same direction up sideways and rotor pointing to #1 or spin the big gear and put the gears point to point and just loosen and turn the distributor to make it point to number #1. I was reading here a couple of times and I wanted to know if I got this right or if I misunderstood. many thanks. here are some pics of the gears not point to point and rotor pointing at number 1.




P1010020-1.jpg





P1010022.jpg
 
Mopar King said:
sorry to jump in but I have the same problem with my '73 Dodge Swinger. I started by turning the engine by hand so that the #1 Spark plug is all the way at its peak on top dead center. I also looked at the rotor inside the dis. cap and it was pointing to number one Spark plug wire.


here is the are that got confusing, what I took the timing chain cover off I notice that it wasn't point to point on the gears. it was both going up side-ways at the same direction. I turn the big gear by hand without disturbing the small one. I got it point to point but the rotor is pointing to the #6 spark plug wire. I turned it again to let it sit on the #1 spark plug wire and it became the same as before not pointing point to point.


I wanted to know if I leave it the way it is on 10 oclock both same direction up sideways and rotor pointing to #1 or spin the big gear and put the gears point to point and just loosen and turn the distributor to make it point to number #1. I was reading here a couple of times and I wanted to know if I got this right or if I misunderstood. many thanks. here are some pics of the gears not point to point and rotor pointing at number 1.




P1010020-1.jpg





P1010022.jpg
Click to expand...


That was correct, the engine should be at TDC "exhaust" stroke when the dots are lined up. When the engine is at TDC "compression" stroke, the dots will both at the top of the gears and not lined up.
 
so everything I did is A-ok? should I leave it the way it is points not facing each other and rotor pointing at #1 spark plug - like in the pictures and close everything up.


I still have it set up like in the pic. In the few books I have - it never said anything about this:read2:. this is very new to me.
 
Put the sprockets "dot to dot". Then without turning the crank or cam, install the distributor with the rotor pointing at number 6 cyl.
 
Mopar King said:
so everything I did is A-ok? should I leave it the way it is points not facing each other and rotor pointing at #1 spark plug - like in the pictures and close everything up.


I still have it set up like in the pic. In the few books I have - it never said anything about this:read2:. this is very new to me.
Click to expand...


The way you had it is correct, but it is easier installing the chain with the dots aligned in the middle.

There is also no need to mess with the dist when changing the timing chain, once the chain is in then set the engine on TDC compression stroke to make sure the dist is in correctly as well as checking the dist gear especially if the chain was real bad, it is commun for people to move the gear around to compensate for the chain being worn out.
 
OK guys Put the two gears marks together in center or both pointing north ( 12 oclock ). Either way will work
Thats the crank cam relation and most Important. If the engine doesn't start, lift the distributer just enough to turn it 180 degrees ( half a round ). The way the distributer keys into its driver will only let it go in one way or the other.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is PRELUBE THAT NEW CHAIN !
Sink it in 90w gear oil before you install it. To run it dry would shorten its life.
 
Charrlie_S : when I turn the BIG cam gear to put the points together in the middle the rotor will be pointing to #6 but when I turn the big gear to #1 it will be pointing at 10 oclock.


I didn't put the timing chain on because I didn't want to disrupt or move the small crank gear which I already set at TDC before I took everything apart.

So from what everyone was telling me, the way I have it now both points pointing to 10 oclock and rotor pointing to #1 is good and ready to close and go? no need to move the dis. ?
 
UPDATE :

I know this isn't my post but I have to reply to what i have done so far. maybe this will help someone else. I have re rotated the Big cam gear till the points are together in the center (chain not installed yet). after that I took out the whole distributor arm out, cleaned it and placed back inside while trying to pointing it to #1 and it fits perfect. now tomorrow I will seal everything back and see if I did this correct since it is getting dark..



.
 
RedFish said:
Thats the crank cam relation and most Important. If the engine doesn't start, lift the distributer just enough to turn it 180 degrees ( half a round ). The way the distributer keys into its driver will only let it go in one way or the other.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is PRELUBE THAT NEW CHAIN !
Sink it in 90w gear oil before you install it. To run it dry would shorten its life.
Click to expand...

Not correct. This is a slant six, not a v-8. The dist gear has 13 teeth, and can be installed in any one of those 13 positions.
And yes, the chain should be soaked in lube before installing. I preferr 10-30 motor oil.
 
Mopar King said:
Charrlie_S : when I turn the BIG crank gear to put the points together in the middle the rotor will be pointing to #6 but when I turn the big gear to #1 it will be pointing at 10 oclock.


I didn't put the timing chain on because I didn't want to disrupt or move the small cam gear which I already set at TDC before I took everything apart.

So from what everyone was telling me, the way I have it now both points pointing to 10 oclock and rotor pointing to #1 is good and ready to close and go? no need to move the dis. ?
Click to expand...

First off, lets get the terminolagy (sp) correct. The big gear is the CAM gear. The small gear is the CRANK gear. OK? Next, if the distributer was not removed, leave it alone. Now line up the dots on the crank and cam gear so they point at each other. Install the chain with the gears positioned like that. Now, without moving anything, see if the distributor rotor points to where the number 6 plug wire is located. If yes, button everything up. If the distributor was removed, install it now, with the rotor pointing toward the #6 plug wire location. When replaceing a timing chain, it is not necessary to disturb the distributor, untill the engine is running, then it might need tweaking to get the timing set.
 
sorry about the mix up of gear names. I'll fix that up.


what would happen if I have the rotor pointing to #1 spark plug wire, both dots facing each other and #1 cylinder is at TDC? The timing chain gear I took out was the original first, the one made out of plastic - aluminum.
 
When the dots face each other, both number 1 and number 6 are at TDC. However #1 is TDC exhaust, and #6 is TDC compression. So if the rotor is pointing at #1 the ignition timing will be 180 degrees off.
 
I set it on #6 with the dots together in the middle. I closed everything but when I went to start it, it didn't want to start.


I tried rotating the engine again but no luck. I set it back to number one and it did start but the problem is that I can't get the timing correct. I can't get it to top dead center on the center. it is reading 3 inches off the 10 degree BTDC. when I tried adjusting it to make it to TDC it starts getting rougher and wants to shut off. unless I have a problem with carburator because I bought it online used and the idle is a little high.


it is a simply job to change a timing chain but it is making me think alittle more than expected. I wonder what the problem could be?
 
:cheers:I fixed the car from not shutting off so much:cheers:. I search all the rubber hosings on my carburetor and I found out that one of them was connected wrong. the PVC value hose from the carb was connected to the pollution control cylinder and same with the Pollution control.


Starts very good and quick when you pump a little gas but I know it could start better. I was wondering how do you get the timing marks to read to the center and still have playability on both ends?



.
 
Hey Charlie, your short post was all that should be required for someone replacing their timing chain and gear set. Short and sweet.

Charrlie_S said:
First off, lets get the terminolagy (sp) correct. The big gear is the CAM gear. The small gear is the CRANK gear. OK? Next, if the distributer was not removed, leave it alone. Now line up the dots on the crank and cam gear so they point at each other. Install the chain with the gears positioned like that. Now, without moving anything, see if the distributor rotor points to where the number 6 plug wire is located. If yes, button everything up. If the distributor was removed, install it now, with the rotor pointing toward the #6 plug wire location. When replaceing a timing chain, it is not necessary to disturb the distributor, untill the engine is running, then it might need tweaking to get the timing set.
Click to expand...
 
BTW, same deal with a small block. I was also totally confused a few years ago when I found that with the dots together, my 273 engine was at TDC on #6 (exhaust stroke TDC #1). Scratched my head over that until I read that it was correct. Charrlie_S is the expert.
 
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