Tire sizes on stock rallye wheels.

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swingingdart

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Okay, so this topic has been discussed a ton. But I have stock rallye wheels on a 72 dart. I was young and dumb when it came to tires and I bought 205/60R14s for this car. Just sits the car way too low. So, can I fit 225/70R14 on the car? They seem to be the right height. But will the front tires rub while turning? Maybe I should do 215/70R14 on front and 225/70 on rear? Can I fit more meat on the rear?
Thanks guys!!
 
245/60 fit without rubbing? That's cool!
I have them on this '65, looks great No Issues!

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I would make a slightly different recommendation - 205-70-14 on front and 245-60-14 rear. Yes they fit, I've been running BFG TA Radial 245-60-14s on the back of my 70 dart for 25 years and over 100,000 miles. Some here will tell you that those tires are too wide for the wheels, i'll go with the test of time.
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I would make a slightly different recommendation - 205-70-14 on front and 245-60-14 rear. Yes they fit, I've been running BFG TA Radial 245-60-14s on the back of my 70 dart for 25 years and over 100,000 miles. Some here will tell you that those tires are too wide for the wheels, i'll go with the test of time.View attachment 1715660068 View attachment 1715660069
Gosh, they do look good.... thanks! I was wanting a wider tire on the front myself. 205/70R14 Do look good on the front!
Thanks for the help!
 
I got that size by comparing overall tire height on BFG's website. I wanted the side walls to be as close to the same as possible so it would look right from the side. The 245-60 height is between 195-70 and 205-70
 
I got that size by comparing overall tire height on BFG's website. I wanted the side walls to be as close to the same as possible so it would look right from the side. The 245-60 height is between 195-70 and 205-70
Do you have any pics from the rear? I'm intrigued to see how wide they look under the car!
 
Sigh. A 245/60/14 is not supposed to be mounted on any rim narrower than 7". Stock rallye rims are what? 5.5"? No more than 6" wide for sure. That's not a little bit of a difference. All here in black and white
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...te Letters&partnum=46SR4RADTARWL2V3&tab=Sizes

Tires aren't there just to look cool, they're there to keep your car on the road and they are a safety item. With a tire that's a minimum of one inch, or maybe even 1.5" too wide for the rim you're mounting it on the tread patch on the road will not be the correct shape/profile which will reduce both traction and tire life. Not to mention handling.

You'd get better results with the 225/70/14. Even it's supposed to be mounted on a rim at least 6" wide.

And yeah, clearly "people have done it". Well, "people" do a lot of stupid crap and get away with it. The ones that got lucky are still around to tell you it's ok. And with these cars it's hard to say, maybe the guy telling you it's ok doesn't even log 500 miles a year and only drives to Dairy Queen when it's sunny and warm. That's not gonna tell you much about tire performance is it? You're supposed to replace them at a minimum of every 10 years too, is 5,000 miles gonna tell you much about tire wear? It won't. The tire manufacturer's recommendations are there for a reason, I'm sure they'd love to sell you a bigger, wider tire if they could because it'll cost more.

245's are also pretty tight on a Dart with the springs in the stock location. They will fit a lot of them, but not ALL of them. Being squeezed down on a narrow rim makes the fit more likely, but it's not a gimme and the backspacing has to be correct.
 
Sigh. A 245/60/14 is not supposed to be mounted on any rim narrower than 7". Stock rallye rims are what? 5.5"? No more than 6" wide for sure. That's not a little bit of a difference. All here in black and white
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Radial+T/A&sidewall=Raised White Letters&partnum=46SR4RADTARWL2V3&tab=Sizes

Tires aren't there just to look cool, they're there to keep your car on the road and they are a safety item. With a tire that's a minimum of one inch, or maybe even 1.5" too wide for the rim you're mounting it on the tread patch on the road will not be the correct shape/profile which will reduce both traction and tire life. Not to mention handling.

You'd get better results with the 225/70/14. Even it's supposed to be mounted on a rim at least 6" wide.

And yeah, clearly "people have done it". Well, "people" do a lot of stupid crap and get away with it. The ones that got lucky are still around to tell you it's ok. And with these cars it's hard to say, maybe the guy telling you it's ok doesn't even log 500 miles a year and only drives to Dairy Queen when it's sunny and warm. That's not gonna tell you much about tire performance is it? You're supposed to replace them at a minimum of every 10 years too, is 5,000 miles gonna tell you much about tire wear? It won't. The tire manufacturer's recommendations are there for a reason, I'm sure they'd love to sell you a bigger, wider tire if they could because it'll cost more.

245's are also pretty tight on a Dart with the springs in the stock location. They will fit a lot of them, but not ALL of them. Being squeezed down on a narrow rim makes the fit more likely, but it's not a gimme and the backspacing has to be correct.
So I assume this is why you see tires for sale that are worn down everywhere but the middle of the tread? Makes sense!
 
‘69 Dart Swinger

B.F.G. Radial T/A’s
215/70/14 front
245/60/14 rear

5.5” Rallye wheels

25 years on 3 different sets of tires.

no rubbing or any other problems other than raised brown letters on the 245/60/14’s
 
So I assume this is why you see tires for sale that are worn down everywhere but the middle of the tread? Makes sense!

Worn down everywhere but the middle is under-inflation. Bad maintenance basically.

Too wide of a tire on too narrow of a rim would cause the middle to wear out but not the shoulders. Because the tire is too wide for the rim the tread patch will end up more round, the rim is forcing it up in the middle by putting the sidewalls too close together. Unless you also compensate by running less tire pressure. But there's only so much you can compensate for with the pressure, it will cause premature wear and poor handling. Lowering the pressure allows the tread to sit flatter, but the sidewalls will bulge out more and the handling gets worse. You'd be better off with a narrower tire that fits the rim, it will leave the tread patch flat, the sidewall shape as designed and you get the tread on the ground like it's supposed to be and maximize your traction.

All that running the wider tire does is let you go on the internet and say you run a wider tire. A 245 won't perform the same on a 5.5" rim as it will on a 7" rim.

It would be one thing if you were talking about say, running a tire recommended for a 6" tire on a 5.5". Still not "right", but close enough that most will never notice. A tire that's supposed to be on a 7" rim on a 5.5" is a whole different ball game.

‘69 Dart Swinger

B.F.G. Radial T/A’s
215/70/14 front
245/60/14 rear

5.5” Rallye wheels

25 years on 3 different sets of tires.

no rubbing or any other problems other than raised brown letters on the 245/60/14’s

How many miles? How do you use and drive the car?

And sorry, but why do you know better than the people that design the tire? Getting away with it doesn't mean a thing.
 
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I’ve had those size tires on my car for over 25 years and driven over 40 000 miles.

Right or wrong, I’m just giving my personal experience with 245’s on the rear of a ‘69 Dart, that’s all.
 
I’ve had those size tires on my car for over 25 years and driven over 40 000 miles.

Right or wrong, I’m just giving my personal experience with 245’s on the rear of a ‘69 Dart, that’s all.

Have you ever run them with the right size rim? Because if you haven't, how does your experience mean anything? If you've always done it wrong, how do you know doing it right isn't better?

I've done it wrong, I have no problem admitting that. I also know that I can tell the handling difference between a tire that's too wide for the rim it's on and one that's on the correct sized rim. Especially if the difference in the width of the rim is significant. Can someone tell if the rim is a 1/2" too narrow? Probably not in most cases. But 1.5"? Again, I'm sorry, but you should be able to notice that difference, especially in the handling.
 
The Factory Service Manual shows the largest stock size to be an E70-14 on a 5 1/2" rim. w/sway bar and H.D. suspension.

So with a factory rim a 205/70-14 would be the factory equivalent today. The 215/70-14 would probably be the max with no mods to the car. You have very limited clearance on the front because of the cars wider front track.

If you go with an aftermarket wheel the problem would be to get enough positive offset to keep the tire in the fender well.

"Most of the pictures posted here are of cars that are not standard ride height"

tire size coversions from 1960's.jpg


1949 to current tire size conversion.png


tire diameter chart.jpg
 

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The Factory Service Manual shows the largest stock size to be an E70-14 on a 5 1/2" rim. w/sway bar and H.D. suspension.
So with a factory rim a 205/7017 would be the factory equivalent today. The 215/70-14 would probably be the max with no mods to the car. You have very limited clearance on the front because of the cars wider front track.

The track width depends entirely on what front brakes are on the car, since we're talking factory 14's on a '72 we know it's SBP so there should be room outboard to the fender for a 215. But a 215/70/14 is 26" tall, which is pretty close to as tall as you want to run unless you change the backspacing up or run a narrower tire than that.

I have run a 225/60/15 up front on a BBP disk brake car with a 15x7 and a 4.25" backspace, which is about the max for a 15" with that backspace. But the track width is wider with the BBP disks than anything with SBP brakes. The 225'/60/15's are also a bit shorter though.
 
The person posting never said if he had disc or drum. The factory disc was a 4 1/2" pattern. The drum was 4".
I have posted the charts for tire sizes, rim widths, tire diameter, load range of the different tires. Do some researching with the charts.
For example the 225/60-15 is the same diameter as the 205/70-14 .
 

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When I got my Dart GT it had factory 14" X 5 1/2" Rallye wheels with P225-70R14 tires on the rear (factory installed 741 3.23:1 8 3/4" sure-grip) with P215-70R14 tires up front.

DSCN8202 Industrial 2.jpg
 
Have you ever run them with the right size rim? Because if you haven't, how does your experience mean anything? If you've always done it wrong, how do you know doing it right isn't better?

So I have another Dart with the Mopar Performance kit to move the springs in a bit, so I have 7 inch rallye wheels on the back with 245-60-14 tires. Yes this is better, but it also cost a bunch of work and $$$ to do. That car also ran on factory 5.5 inch rallyes for two decades with 245s with no problems before I changed things over, including no abnormal wear that you describe. Between the two Darts, I've run 245s on stock rallye wheels for well over 130,000 miles over 35 years ( before that we mostly used belted bias ply tires :)). I'll take, my experience and that of lots of FABO members over many years and many miles over numbers in a chart based on theory, not long term collection of data, any day. According to your previous post, my experience is supposed to now mean something, right???
 
The person posting never said if he had disc or drum. The factory disc was a 4 1/2" pattern. The drum was 4".
I have posted the charts for tire sizes, rim widths, tire diameter, load range of the different tires. Do some researching with the charts.
For example the 225/60-15 is the same diameter as the 205/70-14 .

Sorry, but in 1972 even the disks were 5x4", and had a narrower track than the BBP disks did. 1972 disks were still the Kelsey Hayes 4 piston calipers, with rotors that had a 5x4" and 7/16" diameter studs. 1973 was the first year for the single piston calipers and 5x4.5" bolt pattern for A-bodies.

So I have another Dart with the Mopar Performance kit to move the springs in a bit, so I have 7 inch rallye wheels on the back with 245-60-14 tires. Yes this is better, but it also cost a bunch of work and $$$ to do. That car also ran on factory 5.5 inch rallyes for two decades with 245s with no problems before I changed things over, including no abnormal wear that you describe. Between the two Darts, I've run 245s on stock rallye wheels for well over 130,000 miles over 35 years ( before that we mostly used belted bias ply tires :)). I'll take, my experience and that of lots of FABO members over many years and many miles over numbers in a chart based on theory, not long term collection of data, any day. According to your previous post, my experience is supposed to now mean something, right???

Sure, your experience means something. You said it yourself, the 7" wide wheels are better. They are, that's the end of the story. Will putting 245's on a 5.5" rim kill you? Apparently not if you drive like you do. But that doesn't mean it's good. Or right. Or even safe.

I've run E and A-bodies as my daily drivers (My '74 Duster is the newest car I own) for about 12 years now. And well over 100k miles in that time, daily driving year round in all weather conditions. I also do a decent amount of "corner carving" driving mountain roads. I have driven classics (most older than these mopars) almost exclusively since getting my driver's license which is now about 25 years ago, and far exceeds 135k miles. Like I said, I've logged well over 100k just on my Mopars. And MY experience tells me that you should listen to the manufacturer's recommendations. Because it DOES make a difference. I've run tires that were outside the manufacturer's specs, it's not worth it. You spend more money on tires and don't get better performance. It's a waste of money just for bragging rights. Tires on rims outside the recommended rim widths have poorer handling. And I've pushed them hard enough to know that.

And regardless, the charts and data that you are ignoring have been put together by people that know more about tires than everyone here on FABO combined. Me included. Your opinions and experiences are not worth more than the knowledge of the folks designing the tires, or the hundreds of thousands of miles of testing they've done. I don't care if put a 100 million miles on your tires, your opinion is not greater than their knowledge. You will never know as much about tires as they do. And that's fine, right up until you think you know better than they do.
 
for the OP (swingingdart): as you may have guessed this is not the first time 72bluNblu and I have "discussed" this on FABO and I doubt that either of us will ever convince the other. As you requested, I'll take a shot of the Dart wearing 245s on stock rally rims from the back and post it for you tomorrow.
 
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