Tires and wheel question.

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RobbAdams

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Hello early a folks, I posted this question in the Tire and Wheel form and got no response, so I thought perhaps I may get a better response here. the car is a 1966 Barracuda.

Here is the origional post:


RobbAdams said:
I have located a set of wheels in SBP in town, and would like to order tires for them.

The wheels are:
m62.jpg


14x7
0 offset
4 inch backspace

What are your tire size reccomendations. I am seeking an all season tire as i live in Canada.


Robb
Click to expand...
 
I just came back from taking some measurements in the shed, & hope this can be of some help.

I used this on the rear of my '64 Barracuda (should be the same as your '66) with both the stock 7 1/4 rear & an 8 3/4 rear from a Demon. I had Rocket brand chrome 5 spokes (similar to a Cragar S/S) 14" x 7" with what was called a "standard" offset. After measuring the one wheel & tire I still have the best I could say is that it is a 4" backspacing. I used a Parnelli Jones F60/14 tire with a tread width of approx. 8 5/8", a section width of approx. 9 7/16" & a diameter of approx. 24 3/4 ". This cleared the leaf springs on the inside by about 1/4" when parked & showed very minimal rubbing on the spring when driving. The only way I knew it rubbed was because there was a shiny spot on the side of the springs. The tire was never damaged & I never heard it rub. There were no clearance problems with the outside lip of the fender or inside the wheel tub.

On the front of the car I used the same wheels with an E70/14" & later an E60/14" tire. I had to use a 7/16" spacer to keep the lip of the wheel from hitting the edge of the upper control arms. This was with the factory 9" drums, but I think it would be the same with 10" drums. I don't know about disc brakes. The E70 tires rubbed occasionally when making a right turn into an inclined driveway. The tire would catch the bottom front edge of the fender & then make a thump noise as it "popped" past the fender. With the E/60 tires I never had a clearance problem. Both sizes rubbed the fenderwell headers I had, but I'm assuming you don't have those. It was never a problem, it just rubbed paint off of them. Sorry I don't have any measurements for the E60 tires, but they were stolen long ago. I should also add that I had "cranked up" the torsion bars but don't remember how much it raised the car. It wasn't a lot. I know that I later replaced them (factory '64 V8 bars) with those from the same Demon the rear axle came from & this made the car stiffer in front but it didn't sit any higher.

Hope this helps some. I currently have 10" drums from a '69 Formula S Barracuda on the car & could probably make more measurements for you if you needed them, but the car doesn't have an engine in it right now so don't know how useful they would be. I doubt that I have the wheel spacers any more but I could do some digging. Let me know if you need any more info, I'll do what I can.




:burnout:
 
ordering them via Kal Tire. Apparently the wheel is due to be discontinued. it is called the outlaw II is is listed under the offroad section of the american racing website.

Kal Tire quoted me $115/wheel via deer run location
 
Robb, due to the wheel stud measurements (5x4) 5 lugs by 4" there are only 2 choices. The wheels you have found (American Racing OutlawII) or Cragar SS. The Cragar's come in a reverse offset as well. (deep dish). If by chance you have a different bolt pattern then you have many more options. My wife purchased a rear end form an earlier model "a" body that had adapters bolted to the drums that changed the bolt pattern from 5 on 4" to 5 on 4& 1/2. A bodies used the 4" pattern till 1968 when they went to 4 & 1/2. Both the American Racing and the Cragar wheels only come in 14" with the 5 on 4" pattern. I am going to use the adapters on the rear of my 67 Barracuda to get some 15" rear tires and wheels. (Outlaw II)
 
cudasrule said:
Robb, due to the wheel stud measurements (5x4) 5 lugs by 4" there are only 2 choices. The wheels you have found (American Racing OutlawII) or Cragar SS. The Cragar's come in a reverse offset as well. (deep dish). If by chance you have a different bolt pattern then you have many more options. My wife purchased a rear end form an earlier model "a" body that had adapters bolted to the drums that changed the bolt pattern from 5 on 4" to 5 on 4& 1/2. A bodies used the 4" pattern till 1968 when they went to 4 & 1/2. Both the American Racing and the Cragar wheels only come in 14" with the 5 on 4" pattern. I am going to use the adapters on the rear of my 67 Barracuda to get some 15" rear tires and wheels. (Outlaw II)
Click to expand...

The Cragars also come in 15" (1 got 2 of them) but your only hope is this web site or ebay since Cragar don't make the SS in 5 x 4" BC anymore

P6020033 (Custom).JPG
 
Robb,

I just put a set of Hankook 215/70/14 on my 76 Duster and I love them. Khumo also makes excellent tires for the money. The set I put on my 95 Intrepid are better than any General or Goodyear products I've had on it and much cheaper.

BD
 
cudasrule said:
Robb, due to the wheel stud measurements (5x4) 5 lugs by 4" there are only 2 choices. The wheels you have found (American Racing OutlawII) or Cragar SS. The Cragar's come in a reverse offset as well. (deep dish). If by chance you have a different bolt pattern then you have many more options. My wife purchased a rear end form an earlier model "a" body that had adapters bolted to the drums that changed the bolt pattern from 5 on 4" to 5 on 4& 1/2. A bodies used the 4" pattern till 1968 when they went to 4 & 1/2. Both the American Racing and the Cragar wheels only come in 14" with the 5 on 4" pattern. I am going to use the adapters on the rear of my 67 Barracuda to get some 15" rear tires and wheels. (Outlaw II)
Click to expand...

The A body used the small bolt pattern way past 1968! :)
 
cudasrule said:
Robb, due to the wheel stud measurements (5x4) 5 lugs by 4" there are only 2 choices. The wheels you have found (American Racing OutlawII) or Cragar SS. The Cragar's come in a reverse offset as well. (deep dish). If by chance you have a different bolt pattern then you have many more options. My wife purchased a rear end form an earlier model "a" body that had adapters bolted to the drums that changed the bolt pattern from 5 on 4" to 5 on 4& 1/2. A bodies used the 4" pattern till 1968 when they went to 4 & 1/2. Both the American Racing and the Cragar wheels only come in 14" with the 5 on 4" pattern. I am going to use the adapters on the rear of my 67 Barracuda to get some 15" rear tires and wheels. (Outlaw II)
Click to expand...


I thought the 5 x 4 bc was used until 1973 on the A bodies?

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm having much difficulty nailing down the proper wheels I could use in a drum to disc conversion on my 69 GTS and I'm slowly beginning to realize that I may have to switch to 5 x 4.5 and go with 15's all the way around.

If my '69 already has the 5 x 4.5" I'd be pleasantly surpirised.

THanks
 
Chasb, Before deciding which wheels to use you better measure your existing Bolt Center. If it's still stock it'll be 4" but someone along the line may have changed it to 4 1/2".
 
demon seed said:
Chasb, Before deciding which wheels to use you better measure your existing Bolt Center. If it's still stock it'll be 4" but someone along the line may have changed it to 4 1/2".
Click to expand...

Will do that this weekend. Too many conflicting pieces of info.

If it is 4.5" does that mean I'll have to go to 15" wheels?

I don't mind, but I wasn't planning on going for new wheels in the deal. (I am gettting new redline tires anyway so the 14 or 15 size there is a wash.
 
Na, with a 4.5" BC there are tons of choices for wheels. Go to summit racing and drill in to their wheel section by putting in 4.5" BC and 14 inch and it'll come up with all their choices.
 
I believe the 73 and up disc brake cars were 4.5", anything prior would still be 4". I do believe the six cylinder cars with drum brakes still used the 4" until the end. :)
 
65dartman said:
I believe the 73 and up disc brake cars were 4.5", anything prior would still be 4". I do believe the six cylinder cars with drum brakes still used the 4" until the end. :)
Click to expand...

I agree.

Lee
 
I went out to my "barn" today & took a few pics I thought might be helpful to anybody thinking about Cragar SS wheels on an early A Body. The wheel & tire in the pics is what I described in the post above. A Rocket 14" x 7" Standard offset (which looks to be identical to a Cragar SS of the same size as far as backspacing) with an F60 14 tire with a tread width of 8 5/8", a section width of 9 7/16", & a diameter of 24 3/4". The pics are of it mounted on my '64 Barracuda with a '71 Demon 8 3/4" rear with 10" x 1 3/4" brakes. The car also has heavy duty leaf springs from a '65 Barracuda, as well as air shocks, but I let all of the air out of the shocks before I took the pics. I don't think you could run anything wider on this car, but you might get away with something a bit larger in diameter. Most of the pictures speak for themselves. There is one that is a bit hard to figure out at first glance. It was taken with the camera against the outside of the wheel looking straight up into the fenderwell. It looks like there's a lot of outside clearance, but that's just the wheelwell flare. The inner fenderwell curves in fairly quickly. That's the first pic.

:burnout:

Tire & Wheel Pic 4.jpg


Tire & Wheel Pic 6.jpg


Tire & Wheel Pic 8.jpg


Tire & Wheel Pic 9.jpg


Tire & Wheel Pic 2.jpg
 
65dartman your are correct, I have a '75 Scamp /6 4speed parts car that has 4" bolt circle on it. The front drums are 10"

'64 cuda, man those are some old 'stones, I haven't seen those things in years.


Chuck
 
64 cuda I've got about and 1 in. on both sides (as in the inner fender and outer fender) on my car.

I realize that my car is mini tubed, but I think that you could run a little wider tire that if you off set is out a little more, or is this the only offset you can get with that rim?

I don't have any close ups like what you've got, which by the way should help a lot of people out with those shots you've taken, thanks for taking the time to do that for us.

Lee

Lee 6.jpg


MVC-129S.JPG


MVC-859S.JPG
 
340mopar said:
65dartman your are correct, I have a '75 Scamp /6 4speed parts car that has 4" bolt circle on it. The front drums are 10"

'64 cuda, man those are some old 'stones, I haven't seen those things in years.


Chuck
Click to expand...

I agree, everything I've seen says this also.

Lee
 
moparlee,

14 x 7 Cragar SS is available with either a 4 1/8" or 2 5/8" backspace.

14 x 8 Cragar SS is available with either a 4 1/4" or 3" backspace.

15 x 7 Cragar SS is available with a 4 1/8" backspace

15 x 8 Cragar SS is available with a 4 1/4" backspace

These numbers are from Newstalgia Wheels' website. Maybe they'll weld a set with a custom backspace? Somebody that's already ordered some of the wheels they are supposed to be making soon might know. If the backspacing on a 7" wheel was decreased by about 1/4" or 3/8" you might be able to get more tire to fit. The main reason I did this was because I was wondering if I could run a 14 x 8 or a 15 x 8 wheel on the rear of my car. If I ran the wider wheel I'd probably have to run a narrower tire due to the limited clearance at the leaf spring and the increase in backspacing. It's already so close that I can't fit my little finger between the tire & the spring. Plus, it gets a bit tight on the outside, so the 8" wheel probably wouldn't work. Playing with different brake widths etc. might allow a wider tire. I don't think moving the springs in would help unless the car was mini tubbed. I wouldn't want to do that on this type of car because the inner part of the tub is visable under the back glass, & it would probably also affect how the fold down rear seat latches when upright.

Like you said, I figured these pics might give somebody with a similar car an idea of how things would fit.


:burnout:
 
moparlee,
I just heard from Newstalgia Wheel. They said they can have the Cragar SS Wheels made with a custom offset. They said it would add some to the cost, but I will have to talk to them on the phone to find out how much, if I decide to go that route. If I did, I could probably cram a tire nearly an inch wider into the rear wheelwells. Also, I did a quick re-measuring of my existing wheel & tire combo since I added air to it. It looks like the section width might be over 10 1/4" instead of the 9 7/16" I measured when it was off the car & with no air. I never thought the air would make that much difference, stupid me. :banghead: I'll have to pull the wheel & double check everything to get a final number, but bigger is always better. :thumbup:

:burnout:
 
I went out & did some SERIOUS measuring this afternoon. These are corrections for the earlier posts on this thread. My Rocket brand 14 x 7" wheel has 4 3/8" back spacing. The tire on it has a 9 13/16" section width, not counting the raised lettering on the side.

I spoke to Howard Cook at Newstalgia Wheel & he said a custom offset would add about $50 to the cost of a wheel.

It looks like I have about 1 1/4", maybe a little more, between the outside of the tire & the inner fenderwell. The Cragar 7" wheels have a backspacing of 4 1/8" & the 8" wheels have a backspacing of 4 1/4". When compared to the wheel & tire combo that I have now, this means that using the 7" wheels would move the tire 1/4" toward the outside of the car & the 8" wheels would move the entire tire 1 1/8" toward the outside of the car. This means the 8" wheel would allow me to run nearly an inch more section width & still fit it in the fender. If this is right, the 8" wheels would be perfect. \\:D/

Here's the question. DOES MY MATH LOOK RIGHT? AM I THINKING CORRECTLY HERE? I just don't want to commit to new wheels & then find that I screwed up in my reasoning. :cussing: I'd appreciate it if people would let me know if I've messed up here.

I'd also like opinions on whether you guys would run 6" or 7" in front. Thanks!

:burnout:

I rethought this while sitting in my car waiting to pick up my kids from school. Of course, my original thinking was off. The section width of the tire, & how much the side of the tire extends past the rim, is the determining factor. The 8" wheel with the 4 1/4" backspacing would only allow for about 1/4" more sectionwidth than the wheel I have. I could actually fit nearly 1/4" more section width on the 7" wheel than the 8" wheel because of the clearance between the rear spring & the tire. To really go with a signifigantly wider tire I would still have to change the back spacing of the wheels.

So, now the question is, what backspacing on an 8" wheel would allow the widest tire to fit in the wheelwell?
 
[QUOTE='64 Cuda]I went out & did some SERIOUS measuring this afternoon. These are corrections for the earlier posts on this thread. My Rocket brand 14 x 7" wheel has 4 3/8" back spacing. The tire on it has a 9 13/16" section width, not counting the raised lettering on the side.

I spoke to Howard Cook at Newstalgia Wheel & he said a custom offset would add about $50 to the cost of a wheel.

It looks like I have about 1 1/4", maybe a little more, between the outside of the tire & the inner fenderwell. The Cragar 7" wheels have a backspacing of 4 1/8" & the 8" wheels have a backspacing of 4 1/4". When compared to the wheel & tire combo that I have now, this means that using the 7" wheels would move the tire 1/4" toward the outside of the car & the 8" wheels would move the entire tire 1 1/8" toward the outside of the car. This means the 8" wheel would allow me to run nearly an inch more section width & still fit it in the fender. If this is right, the 8" wheels would be perfect. \\:D/

Here's the question. DOES MY MATH LOOK RIGHT? AM I THINKING CORRECTLY HERE? I just don't want to commit to new wheels & then find that I screwed up in my reasoning. :cussing: I'd appreciate it if people would let me know if I've messed up here.

I'd also like opinions on whether you guys would run 6" or 7" in front. Thanks!

:burnout:

I rethought this while sitting in my car waiting to pick up my kids from school. Of course, my original thinking was off. The section width of the tire, & how much the side of the tire extends past the rim, is the determining factor. The 8" wheel with the 4 1/4" backspacing would only allow for about 1/4" more sectionwidth than the wheel I have. I could actually fit nearly 1/4" more section width on the 7" wheel than the 8" wheel because of the clearance between the rear spring & the tire. To really go with a signifigantly wider tire I would still have to change the back spacing of the wheels.

So, now the question is, what backspacing on an 8" wheel would allow the widest tire to fit in the wheelwell?[/QUOTE]

ARRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! This gets frustrating. Forget the part I said about how I rethought everything. I was right the first time.


MoparLee, What size tires do you have on the back of your car? With that diameter, do you think the tires would fit up inside the wheelwell farther without hitting on the body as it curves in toward the underside of the car in front? I really want to stuff as much as I can in mine. Hate to buy the wrong thing. Thanks!
 
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