Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???

[Dave_J]

My take on this is its just a HOBBY and not my bread and butter job.
If I were the one building 400 HP 318s as a living I'd be a bit more upset.

But as a hobby, its just Bench Racing Banter. I know my skill level and what I have done.

I will never build another Flat Tappet Slider cam engine. The cams now days are crap, the lifters are crap and the oil is not made to support them. Its all about Rollers now.

The Lunati Cam in my stroker 410 5.9 is a mild one and a lot of these fokes that posted on here would yell at me for wasting a set of Aluminum Eldy heads for ONLY 400 HP.... and 500 Ft/Lbs from 2700 thru 5600, flat curve to a peak of 525 Ft/bl....Hyd Roller cam, roller 1.6 rockers. 219 deg @ .050" intake, 237 @ 0.050" Ex. Lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.549" intake and 0.565" exhaust.

This would be a good 5.2 cam and heads to get close to 400 HP too. Heads were a 'Black Friday' sale at Mancini for 2 loaded heads $1250

 

[273]

My take on this is its just a HOBBY and not my bread and butter job.
If I were the one building 400 HP 318s as a living I'd be a bit more upset.

But as a hobby, its just Bench Racing Banter. I know my skill level and what I have done.

I will never build another Flat Tappet Slider cam engine. The cams now days are crap, the lifters are crap and the oil is not made to support them. Its all about Rollers now.

The Lunati Cam in my stroker 410 5.9 is a mild one and a lot of these fokes that posted on here would yell at me for wasting a set of Aluminum Eldy heads for ONLY 400 HP.... and 500 Ft/Lbs from 2700 thru 5600, flat curve to a peak of 525 Ft/bl....

View attachment 1715779360 View attachment 1715779361

Bet ya that's a very streetable package, my 360 makes about the same but i'm gonna detune to 360-380 for a more streetable engine. If I ever go 408 it would be to make what I make now.

 

[Dave_J]

Bet ya that's a very streetable package, my 360 makes about the same but i'm gonna detune to 360-380 for a more streetable engine. If I ever go 408 it would be to make what I make now.

This 410 is going in my wifes 78 LRT. She does not like real loppy sounding. The header will feed an electric cutout with one open pipe going to a Y pipe then up the stacks and the closed side going to an X pipe then to a Delta 50 long mufflers and then to the Y pipe and up the stacks, one set per side.....

 

[66fs]

448S, theres the Rub, I do not have a 340 car to fake/clone numbers matching, so NO need for me to buy one of the GODS GIFT to the Mopar world.
If I did have a 340 car, I'd pickup a spare.

For just the $1000 340 core block I can get a lot done on a 5.9 Mag and be far ahead.
If a stock 340 makes (per Chrysler stats) 275@5,000 and 340 Tq@ 3200 RPM at the crank with no accessories and a Stock Junkyard USED 5.9 makes 288@4300 RPM and 386 Tq @ 3300 RPM with the same at the crank and no accessories I'd never bother with the 340. Its just not worth $1000 to everyone. a few but not everyone.

And that seems to rub the 340 cultists raw.

Buy what you want or need, no one is forcing you to not...

Gross figures:
340 = 275@5000 Hp and 340 ft/lb @ 3200
5.9 = 288@4300 and 386 ft/lb @ 3300. With long header 300@ 4500 and 399 ft/lbs @3400

To meet 1972 model-year emissions rules, the 340 was detuned; the compression was dropped to 8.5:1, and the intake valves were smaller. 240 gross horsepower and 290 lb-ft of torque. Still not NET rated, GROSS. Almost the same as a 1968-71 318, SHAME SHAME

NET figures:
5.2= 234@4100 and 295@3000 but this is NET and with accessories. Remember, the 318 was 235 Gross and 150 Net

Instead of using published numbers, you should drive those engines. 235 hp for a 318 never happened. A 72 340 was plenty fast, a 318 2 barrel has no chance of being close to a 72-73 340 or a 273 Commando. No matter what you think the numbers say. It is all about airflow.

 

[jammied]

Instead of using published numbers, you should drive those engines. 235 hp for a 318 never happened. A 72 340 was plenty fast, a 318 2 barrel has no chance of being close to a 72-73 340 or a 273 Commando. No matter what you think the numbers say. It is all about airflow.

Well guess we will agree to disagree on that. A 300hp crate motor was pushing the a bodies into low 13 second quarter miles and that is a fact. And that was a stock 5.9 magnum with a carbed intake and headers. The 318 magnum does make 235hp and I suspect around 250 tuned maybe a touch more. The magnum engines changed the small block mopar world.

A 5.9 magnum pushes a a body just as fast as the 340's did just the way it is. Locomotion ran the crate motor class and I believe he broke unto the 12's with a 300hp 5.9 magnum crate engine

 

[66fs]

I bet there's two to three times or more people with 273/318 and never mind the /6 guy's have under there hoods than 340/360, If everyone yanked there 273/318 tomorrow a swapped in a 360 like the 360 crowd wants 360 would dry up and become big dollar. Most 273/318 guy's are looking for little gains basically tune, mild cam, 4bbl and duals and maybe headers yes a 360 would be slightly better but the mild hopped up 273/318 would be enough power for most.

You mean not everyone is a drag racer? (Sarcasm) We lived in our 64 and 67 Barracudas. Both 273's at different levels. Great real life stories that came from diving them all over the country for a couple of decades. Mine was able to run with cars with 100+ extra cu in. Still running 273's with a 340 on the stand, ready to go. No 360 or 5.9 in the stash, nor will there ever be.

 

[66fs]

Well guess we will agree to disagree on that. A 300hp crate motor was pushing the a bodies into low 13 second quarter miles and that is a fact. And that was a stock 5.9 magnum with a carbed intake and headers. The 318 magnum does make 235hp and I suspect around 250 tuned maybe a touch more. The magnum engines changed the small block mopar world.

A 5.9 magnum pushes a a body just as fast as the 340's did just the way it is. Locomotion ran the crate motor class and I believe he broke unto the 12's with a 300hp 5.9 magnum crate engine

I was mainly talking about 318 2 barrel motors making 235 hp and comparing them to 4 barrel motors. Not into drag racing, but about half of my friends are. I don't have the interest to spend that kind of time and money on it. A Magnum is a different animal, since it has good heads if not cracked. I have no need or desire for aftermarket heads, 360, or 5.9 engines. I have fast street cars that are fast enough for me, and are rock solid reliable with old obsolete parts. I do spend good money on quality machining, parts, and can do most stuff myself. I have no problem helping people with 318's, 273's, 340's, 170's, 383's, 413's, and 440's. I've even done my share of 360's.

 

[66fs]

I can make the argument that the moly ring is obsolete and it really is. In any performance engine a moly ring is a downgrade compared to other ring finishes and materials today.

They might be obsolete, but I never had a problem running speed pro file to fit rings on a bore honed with torque plates and a plateau finish. My machinist was a little leary about using Total Seal rings in a street car.

 

[448Scamp]

i got more red X's from you in last 45 minutes than since i joined many many years ago!! so, dont you be a hater ether!

A disagreement is hate. Got it. Sometimes it’s quicker and easier just to hit the red X than type a response. Grow up.

 

[448Scamp]

Well, if there's anyone on here who can relate to his budget, it's me. I completely get that. I also know there are some places you don't cut corners. I could go into my opinions there, but there's no need to drag up another argument. I get what he's after, I do. I see your point as well.....but let the guy have his fun. This is a hobby after all, right?

I get a budget Rusty. What I don’t get is a 1985 budget in 2021 dollars. It is a hobby for sure. But you wouldn’t buy a house to fix up and base your plans on a 1985 dollar budget would you? And would you purposefully limit your budget even though the end result would be a home with less value because you decided to live on a miserly budget? So a home and a hobby aren’t exactly the same, but that’s no less a realistic comparison as is this whole thread.

 

[toolmanmike]

seen idk how many young folks come on here asking how to get a lil spunk outta a 318 to be told and preached how wrong it is to even consider hopping up a 318, most seem to fall off and drift away! not every body looking for all out race type of builds! i think a 350 hp 318 in a light A body might be a bit much for some pimple faced 17 year old to start with!! but that get told no,..build 600 hp or forget it,..thats skerry,..how bad things happen we wish didnt! let them build a 318,..thrash it out,..learn to do a burn out,..how to drive somptin with some power, not all that power!! thatll keep them in the hobby longer and teach them basic stuff too!! not every body needs a stroker or aluminum heads ether come to think of it! DWB!

 

[448Scamp]

Wow, I think we'll be at post # 1000 before I wake up tomorrow.

Would you all stop pissing in each others Corn Flakes?

It’s called trying to have a reasonable discussion until the “hate” crap comes out. You can’t have a reasonable discussion when the whole thing is tied down by a dumb budget.

 

[448Scamp]

seen idk how many young folks come on here asking how to get a lil spunk outta a 318 to be told and preached how wrong it is to even consider hopping up a 318, most seem to fall off and drift away! not every body looking for all out race type of builds! i think a 350 hp 318 in a light A body might be a bit much for some pimple faced 17 year old to start with!! but that get told no,..build 600 hp or forget it,..thats skerry,..how bad things happen we wish didnt! let them build a 318,..thrash it out,..learn to do a burn out,..how to drive somptin with some power, not all that power!! thatll keep them in the hobby longer and teach them basic stuff too!! not every body needs a stroker or aluminum heads ether come to think of it! DWB!

Who said anything about discouraging some make believe 17 year old from building a 318? No one. You made that up to fit your narrative. I wouldn’t try and talk anyone out of a 318 build. What I would talk them out of is a stupid, unrealistic budget. And that was the point of this entire thread. How to shoestring a build together using a 1985 budget and claim one engine is a better starting point than another to fluff an ego.

 

[448Scamp]

There are some that are sold out in theory and will never get past that this isn't 1975 anymore. I find this in our hobby with the older (I'm getting there myself) folks that had something instilled in them 40 years ago and they go ballistic when a thought challenges that doctrine. Here is a prime example. I had a 1954 Ford Crestline for sale in my front yard. And old gentleman caught my wife at the Post Office and said "what year is the Buick in your front yard". My wife said "that is a 1954 Ford". He got stern and said "I know it's a Buick, that's from my era blah blah blah blah". She politely said "it's a 1954". Smiled and walked away. Why? The old stubborn crow was set that NO lady much younger would tell HIM about those 50's cars. LOL.

• Ask a question and be a fool once; Deny the truth and be a fool forever

That’s too funny. You are the one with the 1985 budget.

 

[448Scamp]

They might be obsolete, but I never had a problem running speed pro file to fit rings on a bore honed with torque plates and a plateau finish. My machinist was a little leary about using Total Seal rings in a street car.

I wasn’t talking about using a gapless ring. Total Seal makes much more than gapless rings. And there is a right way and a wrong way to get the correct plateau finish. If you don’t verify it with a profilometer you have no idea if it’s right or not.

 

[448Scamp]

My take on this is its just a HOBBY and not my bread and butter job.
If I were the one building 400 HP 318s as a living I'd be a bit more upset.

But as a hobby, its just Bench Racing Banter. I know my skill level and what I have done.

I will never build another Flat Tappet Slider cam engine. The cams now days are crap, the lifters are crap and the oil is not made to support them. Its all about Rollers now.

The Lunati Cam in my stroker 410 5.9 is a mild one and a lot of these fokes that posted on here would yell at me for wasting a set of Aluminum Eldy heads for ONLY 400 HP.... and 500 Ft/Lbs from 2700 thru 5600, flat curve to a peak of 525 Ft/bl....Hyd Roller cam, roller 1.6 rockers. 219 deg @ .050" intake, 237 @ 0.050" Ex. Lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.549" intake and 0.565" exhaust.

This would be a good 5.2 cam and heads to get close to 400 HP too. Heads were a 'Black Friday' sale at Mancini for 2 loaded heads $1250

View attachment 1715779360 View attachment 1715779361

Yep, it’s a hobby. So what? Set up unrealistic budgets and end up with something that is not what it should be? That’s wasting money and time. And I figure you’re talking about hydraulic rollers and they aren’t the best thing ever. They have issues. And it comes back to budget. If you use the OP’s senseless budget you wouldn’t be able to afford the roller cam stuff and still be on budget. So would you save some money and do what you want, or live and die by a dumb budget and settle for something that is less than what you want? As I said many times the issue with this thread is the budget. It’s just silly. And it skews everything one way to make the OP feel better.

 

[toolmanmike]

My take on this is its just a HOBBY and not my bread and butter job.
If I were the one building 400 HP 318s as a living I'd be a bit more upset.

But as a hobby, its just Bench Racing Banter. I know my skill level and what I have done.

I will never build another Flat Tappet Slider cam engine. The cams now days are crap, the lifters are crap and the oil is not made to support them. Its all about Rollers now.

The Lunati Cam in my stroker 410 5.9 is a mild one and a lot of these fokes that posted on here would yell at me for wasting a set of Aluminum Eldy heads for ONLY 400 HP.... and 500 Ft/Lbs from 2700 thru 5600, flat curve to a peak of 525 Ft/bl....Hyd Roller cam, roller 1.6 rockers. 219 deg @ .050" intake, 237 @ 0.050" Ex. Lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.549" intake and 0.565" exhaust.

This would be a good 5.2 cam and heads to get close to 400 HP too. Heads were a 'Black Friday' sale at Mancini for 2 loaded heads $1250

View attachment 1715779360 View attachment 1715779361

Nice and I bet it has a trunk load of street manners. While you are out cruising and having fun, the guy with the 600 horse small block is back at his garage cleaning the tires. His car isn't a lot of fun to drive any more. Every time he blips the throttle the tires go up in smoke and it heads for the rhubarb like a Mustang at a car show!

 

[Ceedawg]

I guess this post might get to 1000 since the last 6 pages have about 5 people posting over and over arguing like school children. Can, can not, can, can not. One thing that has surly rose to the surface is the ignorance of the key board jockeys who ‘read it somewhere’ and who have never walked the walk.
BTW in this scenario I’ll put every dime I have in a 440 before a penny in a 318

 

[273]

Nice and I bet it has a trunk load of street manners. While you are out cruising and having fun, the guy with the 600 horse small block is back at his garage cleaning the tires. His car isn't a lot of fun to drive any more. Every time he blips the throttle the tires go up in smoke and it heads for the rhubarb like a Mustang at a car show!

People forget about the traction side, if it's not a dual purpose or a car you want to be able to melt the tires at any speed you don't need all that much power to have fun and 273/318 are a lot easier to hook in the streets.

 

[Dave_J]

I guess this post might get to 1000 since the last 6 pages have about 5 people posting over and over arguing like school children. Can, can not, can, can not. One thing that has surly rose to the surface is the ignorance of the key board jockeys who ‘read it somewhere’ and who have never walked the walk.
BTW in this scenario I’ll put every dime I have in a 440 before a penny in a 318

Agree 95%. But if this was a 100% DRAG Strip build thread we would not be talking 273, 318 or even the 'LOFTY' 340. They are totally out in todays big block stroker DRAG world. I would never think of boring a 318 0.090" to get 4 inch bore when a same weight and same size 360 fits and can easily be bored and stroked to 416 or 426 if care is taken. But why stay small block when you can have a 528 stroker big block.... for the same price as a 'Special' 4 inch bore 318.

 

[318willrun]

Mean while back at the hotel.......
as these very seconds tick away.....

• I just sent info requested to another "318willrun"
• I also just received a "thank you" from another "318willrun"

And folks don't think people are building "low dollar builds" anymore??? Pffft. Many aren't even spending a thousand.... and I'm one of them most of the time ! I sure wished some could learn or see the fun we "318willruns" are having .... A bunch of no-name guys enjoying the hobby the way it was meant to be.....

 

[Dave_J]

A disagreement is hate. (?) Got it. Sometimes it’s quicker and easier just to hit the red X than type a response. Grow up.

Disagreement is NOT hate if the dialog remains respectful. It was not. It seems to still not.

And yes IMHO, putting a X on every disagreement post and then pontificate over and over the same disagreement in words is in my opinion a bit of hater. You just kept posting the same same even after the OP said he was blocking you and not seeing your posts.

I have over the years grown out while I grew up.
I try to be well rounded in thought.
But alass I have also physically grown out as time has shrunk me too.

 

[Dartswinger70]

Starting "from scratch" 3 grand isn't enough even with a Magnum as your core. Ill agree to that. In todays dollars the money gets spent quick, alot of parts are internet ordered and shipping eats up part of the budget. yeah I can scour boneyards for used but then time adds up and time is valuable. Id still order the internals new from the internet suppliers. I could go to the speed shop in my area,but that guy is ordering off the net as well if he doesnt have it in stock.

 

[jammied]

How much is a 340 block worth that has a rod hanging out of the side? Still $1000? Ever watch Nascar or nhra? And seen those engines from the pros drop a rod or the likes?

 

[Ceedawg]

Mean while back at the hotel.......
as these very seconds tick away.....

• I just sent info requested to another "318willrun"
• I also just received a "thank you" from another "318willrun"

And folks don't think people are building "low dollar builds" anymore??? Pffft. Many aren't even spending a thousand.... and I'm one of them most of the time ! I sure wished some could learn or see the fun we "318willruns" are having .... A bunch of no-name guys enjoying the hobby the way it was meant to be.....

Not a thing wrong with low buck, I fit that to a t. But I value every dollar so I put it to the best value, I’m not part of the throw away crowd of today. Bad part, if you spend a few bucks in that 318, how far do you go into that hole before you can’t back up? Carb intake and cam is it then you got a peppy little engine but no world beater and can back away easy.