Update.. Totally Dissapointed !!!!!

-
S

Small Block

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,213
Reaction score
71
Location
West Plains, Mo.
Well we pulled it out thursday and hauled it up this A.M. and tore into it. Slight bit of schrapnal in one of the crank bearings but no damage to the crank. In the heads there is leakdown of oil from the stems of the valves so we pulled off a couple of springs and they are VERY sloppy. The holes had been knurled but very sloppy and way too much play in the valve. Side to side !!!
Further investigation showed much oil deposits on the top of the pistons. Sort of a hard paste. We took it off with a putty knife. The cylinders had oil in a couple of them and after removal of the pistons we found the rings to be very flexible. We could twist them almost a full turn before breaking. That's the top ring. We found a couple that were a little closely lined up for end gap from one to another as for my buds liking. The end gaps seem to be o.k. The cylinders miked out ok and no damage . They were the correct bore.
We have new rings and bearings ordered as well as a stock oil pump and will go back when they come in. I'll be on their door step in the morning and see if they have any back bone. My bud says the ring problem may be an over heating problem. The valves are a screw up. Oh by the way. There are 1.88 valves in the heads instead of 2.02 as i wanted. I wonder why i took the 915's up there?? What's your thoughts ???
 
Knurled valve guides, Jesus H *****. I didn't think anybody did that anymore but it's typical of BS engine overhaul shops when all they care is get it out of the shop and forget about it. Did they charge you for supply and install of new guides. Even if they didn't, excessive guide to stem clearances should have been picked up by any shop that new what it was doing, after all most would just love to sell you new parts. Personally I'd go widdle me a big stick figurativly speaking of course.(need spell check):wack:
 
I've always thought that valve guide knurling went hand in hand with ridge reamers and dingle ball hones. Good for a firewood truck but a high performance engine? They could have at least used slightly oversized stems or some other "trick".

I know you know, but ring eng gaps shouldn't be lined up either. Blow by is not your friend.

I wish you well in your attempts to reconcile.........

I would think the guides and the 1.88's should be a slam dunk.......hard to disagree with you on this.

ROB
 
Did you check the ends of the rings at the gap for 'shinny' spots? Indicates rings butting. If the rings butt they will twist and distort and lose all hope of sealing. Causing very bad blow-by. TB.
 
Do please consult the silvolite data regarding thr ring gaps. KB pistons require a gap larger than would be "normal' for your bore.

Sounds like a good time to source some 302 heads, and sell your J's to a 360 builder.
 
Just thought i'd check this post before i head out to breakfast. The next stop will be the shop and i'll get back tonite with findings. Thanks a bunch.
West Plains, Mo.

Chief: What should those ring gaps be?
 
Sounds ike the leaking pressure was valve seats. Now wonder it was down on power too. IIRC it's .0055 per inch of bore for the top ring on KB pistons. A little more for high heat (RV, NOS, etc), although I cant understand why they'd be used in that role.
 
Well it will all turn out O.K. i think. Before i made it to the shop i got a call from the owner and he started asking questions about the motor and our findings. I told him i'd be at his shop in about an hour with the parts.
I eventually made it and they were waiting. Showed them the rings and the heads and confirmed the absence of any 2.02 valves and he ask what i would like for them to do. He then said if i'd buy the 2.02 valves they'd put em in. I said no dice but i would pay the difference of the 1.88 and the 2.02. He said good. The difference is $.24 per valve.,He said he'd cover that. Said he'd buy new rings, bearings, valves, gaskets and all the machine work necessary to make it right. He ask how much the bud of mine was charging me to disassemble and reassemble and that # was $300. He said he'd do it for that as he wanted to see that it was right. $150 went to my bud for dissasembly so all they are getting is $150 from me. I am buying a stock oil pump for the motor and hanging onto the HV pump. I can live with this.

What areas of assembly should i watch? I will request a build sheet as to clearances and end gaps and the likes on the motor build. Anything else that comes to mind?
 
If you found a lot of shavings in the engine I would make sure that it ws cleaned properly before reassembly.Basically they should do everything all over just like it was a new engine ! Sounds like they are dishonest! you were charged for 2.02 valves but didn't get them! Thats bullcrap! I personally would watch them very closely if you let them redo the engine!

Bobby
 
Sounds more to me like the owner is doing everything he can to make it right. i'd wager the valve size was a mistake on their part, because my shop will just put in bigger ones if the price is that close or the customer specs otherwise. I would not accept the engine back unless it is accompanied by an assembly report. I dont have a scanner, but the one I use is 4 pages long. It includes every part number for every part, measured clearances for every spec (heads and block), measured data and the resulting compression ratio, where the cam is set at degree wise, ring gaps, clearances, and any notes about stuff I may need to jot down (like lifters not liking to turn unless attention is paid to them, and even checking lifter rotation). I keep the original, customer gets a copy. Then should something happen, you can go back and see what part you need, and it verifies the assembler did actually measure things like piston to valve clearance, assembled deck height, and cam installation. Then you are assured as much as possible that the shop did the job you're paying for, and you have evidence should something go wrong, and you find a different part in their, or the rings butt and you see the spec they set them to was too tight. Get everything in writing, and a warranty (if any) should be stated, and dated for the latest date. Not the original date of purchase.
 
Moper: I heard that you don't have a scanner BUT i will pay for you to next day me a copy of that with your local post office. I'll PM you my address and you let me know how much and the money will be on it's way.
We're waiting on parts and as soon as they arrive they'll start assembly. Heads have been reworked right this time waiting for valves. Rods and pistons are being checked and cleaned. I would guess the owner tore someones *** up. Oh they're buying me a new crank also. I took up the valve covers,harmonic balancer and some chrysler blue paint today and they acted like they were glad to see me. Moper ,the address is on the way.
 
Small Block said:
Moper: I heard that you don't have a scanner BUT i will pay for you to next day me a copy of that with your local post office. I'll PM you my address and you let me know how much and the money will be on it's way.
We're waiting on parts and as soon as they arrive they'll start assembly. Heads have been reworked right this time waiting for valves. Rods and pistons are being checked and cleaned. I would guess the owner tore someones *** up. Oh they're buying me a new crank also. I took up the valve covers,harmonic balancer and some chrysler blue paint today and they acted like they were glad to see me. Moper ,the address is on the way.
Click to expand...

Small Block, Did they replace the valve guides and valve guide seals on these reworked heads.
 
On the valves they sure did. Rather than cups they put positive seals in the heads. I saw them with my own eyes as i will on the other stuff.
 
Bill, see your PMs. Send me your email. I forgot..it's just a Word document I wrote up a while ago...LOL..sorry...
 
I sent it to you as soon as you sent that email to me last week. I'll check again tomorrow(Moday) when I log in at work.
Dave
 
I took it in and ask then if they had seen one of these before and of course they said sure but they only use one on race motors. He showed me his version on the computer. I ask for one on my motor. Took some more parts in to them this morning and it's coming together. Told them not to sacrifice quality for speed of assembly.
 
Small Block said:
sure but they only use one on race motors. .
Click to expand...

I hear that a lot. It's frustrating. I wonder why a race motor gets more attention. Clearances dont need to be measured on a stock engine? Doing things "right" can only be done one way. Whether its a fuel burning Hemi, or /6.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top