Upgrading front suspension in my 64 cuda

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Andre68

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Going to be upgrading my stock 64 cuda front suspension. Didn't know whether to post on the early A thread or here... Figured suspension info would be here?

64 cuda 273 push button going to a 360 and 727, going for that pro touring style so I want to get some better handling from my cuda. So I wanted to go to wilwoods ditch the torsion bars etc... Figured I didn't want to go that route after my research. Considered the mustang 2 front end, noticed that front end seemed frowned upon from the mopar guys and it was gonna cost me about $2,200. That's a little too much for what I'm looking to spend, the magnum force and alterKation was all too expensive as well. So what am I trying to do? I want to upgrade my cuda suspension to improve it's handling and braking so I can at least have some fun at an autocross course. My budget for the front end is about $1,500.

I was thinking maybe upgrade to 73-76 discs, getting bigger torsion bars, some good shocks, adding a sway bar. I would like to do the best I can with the $$ I have.

Can anyone point me in a good direction here?

Thanks
 
You can certainly get all that done for your $1500, even buying all new/rebuilt stuff! Someone just listed a full set of 73-76 brake stuff here, ready to go on, for $350! That should get you the brake stuff! Torsion bars are just a call away from most companies, as is the sway bar in aftermarket form I think!! Geof
 
look up info on the guys that vintage race the early A's. good info on guys that race them like back then. I see NO reason for all that high cost modern stuff unless you want to spend big $$ and have that "look"!???????????
 
anyone else have any input on how to better my handling and steering for the 64 cuda? I was reading up about a pinto rack and pinion but have come up short on how to put one into my 64
 
The a body suspension is pretty well designed.
Upgrading to 73 and new front disc brake, which you need the upper control arm (I bought a tubular control arm) and spindle and brake hardware. You could also up grade to full size cordoba rotors just need rotors caliper and caliper brackets.

Tires are the most important part of handling so widest and stickiest you can fit all around.
Next is to keep the tire flat through the turns which shocks, spring rates ( torsion bars and leaf springs) sway bars and cars weight balance has everything thing to do with that along with center of gravity, roll centers etc..

I'd start with a big front sway bar then take it out autocrossing and see where it needs improving and go from there. Don't for get there's rules to be followed.
 
ive been looking at some firm feel suspension and can say i am impressed.

my question is, im putting a 360 mag in the cuda. Will the stock pitman arm and idler arm (going with a firm feel roller) hold up well? any issues i might run into?

I would like the car driver very nicely, very minimal slop in the steering. Any way to upgrade the manual steering box? or will nice new bushing suspension, roller idler, nice wide 17" wheels up front, sway bar, adjustable strut arms and nice pst torsion bars do the trick?
 
Andre68 said:
ive been looking at some firm feel suspension and can say i am impressed. my question is, im putting a 360 mag in the cuda. Will the stock pitman arm and idler arm (going with a firm feel roller) hold up well? any issues i might run into? I would like the car driver very nicely, very minimal slop in the steering. Any way to upgrade the manual steering box? or will nice new bushing suspension, roller idler, nice wide 17" wheels up front, sway bar, adjustable strut arms and nice pst torsion bars do the trick?
Click to expand...

FirmFeel is a good vendor. I think your stock pitman and idler arm may do for now. With a $1500 budget it wouldn't be too difficult to improve your handling; however, odds are you won't be getting wheels and tires with that budget. What rear end do you have in the car? A 7 1/4 may not hold up.

If it were me, I'd most likely do these upgrades

1) Front end rebuild: Replace all of the steering and suspension components utilizing FirmFeel or Moog (found on rockauto) parts. I'd most likely install the Moog offset UCA bushings. If you want adjustable strut and tie rods you'll either have to go with FirmFeel or Hotchkis.

2) New 1.00" or greater T bars: I don't recall how expensive PST's bars are but I believe they were cheaper. Plus they have a 5-10% discount for FABO members. If you want a larger size than what PST offers (like I did) I'd definitely go with FirmFeel. Unfortunately, I don't know much about leaf springs to help you out. I bought the TVS which had a set of leafs picked out for my system already.

3) Front disc brakes: It depends if you want bbp or sbp. I see lots of KH setups for sale here for $200-300; however, most of them are cores. Odds are bearings, seals, rotors, studs, pads and sometimes even calipers have to be replaced. Overall it can be very expensive (I did it). If you're still looking to go the sbp route Scarebird offers a cheap DIY kit utilizing off the shelf components. If you go bbp you're going to want some 73+ A body or FMJ spindles. You'll need the larger ball joint upper control arm which you could probably find used here or just order a tubular one. Hotchkis, I believe, added some extra geometry to their arms that make them a little more superior to the others; however, they're the most expensive. My other options would be FirmFeel or RMS for tubular UCA's. As far as the brakes go for the bbp, I'm not too familiar with the factory setups on many cars. Doctor Diff offers some brake kits utilizing a 10.7" rotor or an 11.75" rotor. I think Wilwood may have a good setup as well for either bolt pattern.

4) Steering box: FirmFeel offers a rebuild kit for the steering box or you can purchase a new one and send yours in as a core.

5) Sway Bars: For now I'd start with just the fronts. Hellwig has an adjustable, hollow front sway bar. FirmFeel's are non adjustable.

6) Shocks: I'd say go Bilstein RCD's or Hotchkis's Fox shocks. I've got Bilsteins and it was a huge improvement in ride handling; however, the Fox shocks are more improved for a pro-touring type car. The Bilstein's are at $400 and I'm not quite sure how much the Fox shocks are, but I believe it's somewhere around the $600 range.

7) Wheels and Tires: Wheels and tires are tough for Mopars (as I've been finding out) the center register is pretty big for most aftermarket wheel so be sure to measure. If you go with sbp hubs your only real options for 17" wheels are Coy's or Motech Performance. They're probably the cheapest wheels you'll find and are offered in both bolt patterns. Unfortunately, even with these wheels and a good set of tires you're looking at at least $1k out the door. However, neither are setup to allow you to have a wide tire underneath your car. I'd say no more than a 225/45/17 for the front (with slight modifications) and a 245/45/17 for the rears (with an A-body rear end). Now if you go bbp, your options widen up. 8 1/4 rear ends are good as they're usually bbp and you can pull the brakes off a Jeep Cherokee, I believe. 8 3/4's are quite more expensive (I've got almost $2k in mine but I replaced every single part on it). If I were to do it again, I would have started with a B body rear instead of an A. The B body rear better matches the front when it comes to offset. There's also not as much room you think there is under the wheel tubs of A bodies (as I also figured out)

Now, looking into the $1500 budget, the things I'd probably put on priority would be the Front end rebuild, new T bars, rebuilding the manual steering box, getting a Hellwig front sway bar, and purchasing some Bilstein RCD's (maybe some Fox shocks if you can afford it). I think you're going to have to hold off on wheels and tires for another day. This is if you have front disc brakes, if not, I'd probably ditch the manual steering box upgrade and sway bar and focus on those.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
FirmFeel is a good vendor. I think your stock pitman and idler arm may do for now. With a $1500 budget it wouldn't be too difficult to improve your handling; however, odds are you won't be getting wheels and tires with that budget. What rear end do you have in the car? A 7 1/4 may not hold up.

If it were me, I'd most likely do these upgrades

1) Front end rebuild: Replace all of the steering and suspension components utilizing FirmFeel or Moog (found on rockauto) parts. I'd most likely install the Moog offset UCA bushings. If you want adjustable strut and tie rods you'll either have to go with FirmFeel or Hotchkis.

2) New 1.00" or greater T bars: I don't recall how expensive PST's bars are but I believe they were cheaper. Plus they have a 5-10% discount for FABO members. If you want a larger size than what PST offers (like I did) I'd definitely go with FirmFeel. Unfortunately, I don't know much about leaf springs to help you out. I bought the TVS which had a set of leafs picked out for my system already.

3) Front disc brakes: It depends if you want bbp or sbp. I see lots of KH setups for sale here for $200-300; however, most of them are cores. Odds are bearings, seals, rotors, studs, pads and sometimes even calipers have to be replaced. Overall it can be very expensive (I did it). If you're still looking to go the sbp route Scarebird offers a cheap DIY kit utilizing off the shelf components. If you go bbp you're going to want some 73+ A body or FMJ spindles. You'll need the larger ball joint upper control arm which you could probably find used here or just order a tubular one. Hotchkis, I believe, added some extra geometry to their arms that make them a little more superior to the others; however, they're the most expensive. My other options would be FirmFeel or RMS for tubular UCA's. As far as the brakes go for the bbp, I'm not too familiar with the factory setups on many cars. Doctor Diff offers some brake kits utilizing a 10.7" rotor or an 11.75" rotor. I think Wilwood may have a good setup as well for either bolt pattern.

4) Steering box: FirmFeel offers a rebuild kit for the steering box or you can purchase a new one and send yours in as a core.

5) Sway Bars: For now I'd start with just the fronts. Hellwig has an adjustable, hollow front sway bar. FirmFeel's are non adjustable.

6) Shocks: I'd say go Bilstein RCD's or Hotchkis's Fox shocks. I've got Bilsteins and it was a huge improvement in ride handling; however, the Fox shocks are more improved for a pro-touring type car. The Bilstein's are at $400 and I'm not quite sure how much the Fox shocks are, but I believe it's somewhere around the $600 range.

7) Wheels and Tires: Wheels and tires are tough for Mopars (as I've been finding out) the center register is pretty big for most aftermarket wheel so be sure to measure. If you go with sbp hubs your only real options for 17" wheels are Coy's or Motech Performance. They're probably the cheapest wheels you'll find and are offered in both bolt patterns. Unfortunately, even with these wheels and a good set of tires you're looking at at least $1k out the door. However, neither are setup to allow you to have a wide tire underneath your car. I'd say no more than a 225/45/17 for the front (with slight modifications) and a 245/45/17 for the rears (with an A-body rear end). Now if you go bbp, your options widen up. 8 1/4 rear ends are good as they're usually bbp and you can pull the brakes off a Jeep Cherokee, I believe. 8 3/4's are quite more expensive (I've got almost $2k in mine but I replaced every single part on it). If I were to do it again, I would have started with a B body rear instead of an A. The B body rear better matches the front when it comes to offset. There's also not as much room you think there is under the wheel tubs of A bodies (as I also figured out)

Now, looking into the $1500 budget, the things I'd probably put on priority would be the Front end rebuild, new T bars, rebuilding the manual steering box, getting a Hellwig front sway bar, and purchasing some Bilstein RCD's (maybe some Fox shocks if you can afford it). I think you're going to have to hold off on wheels and tires for another day. This is if you have front disc brakes, if not, I'd probably ditch the manual steering box upgrade and sway bar and focus on those.
Click to expand...

WoW,
That's quite an answer.
Bravo
:cheers:
 
Andre68 said:
So what am I trying to do? I want to upgrade my cuda suspension to improve it's handling and braking so I can at least have some fun at an autocross course. My budget for the front end is about $1,500.
Click to expand...

Not sure with your year but I used
RMS uppers
QA1 lowers
Wilwood discs with stock spindles
 
If you change to BBP, late model mustang wheels fit with some mods. Usually can find some used for s decent price.
 
I'd suggest Firm Feel tubular upper control arms for extra positive caster without using the offset upper control arm bushings. Add Lower control arm reinforcement plates, roller bearing idler kit, 11/16 tie rods, Moog lower control arm bushings, Have Firm Feel rebuild your manual box (it will be better than new plus they can swap 20:1 or 16:1 ratio again), new pitman arm, I love my Bilstein shocks (but have only run KYB's and regular gas shocks). Now for the cheap part, find a set of .88 diameter torsion bars (minimum) and get a set of "A" body 4 speed leaf springs or a set from an "A" body station wagon, they should have 6 leaves. Factory early sway bars are good, but use a front bar. Get a real good front end guy and treat him right, he is the most important part of what you want to end up with.

Brakes, figure out whether you want large or small bolt pattern. 73-76 brakes are great, but what are you going to do with the rear? The 8 3/4 rear has the best bearings for cornering, the OEM tapered. So, now I'd get custom axles and housing to convert to the big bolt pattern and keep your track centered in your wheel wells with stock offset wheels. Or find a set of K-H small pattern discs and run the stock 8 3/4 "A" body rear? There are lot of other choices, but these are it for me.

Next comes wheels and tires. I like U, V, and Z speed rated tires with a tread wear of less than 300 A A. They can be found in 15 inch sizes, pretty hard in 14 inch.

The difference will be night and day.

One suggestion, I'd rebuild the pushbutton 904 to hold the 360 and get a B & M flexplate to balance it for the 64 Cuda. I always loved the pushbutton trans.
 
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