Valve locks touching ok?

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standup303

standup303

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Hey all, my exhaust valve locks are touching on both sides (left side of the pic). The intake have a small gap. From everything I’ve read, I should not run them if the locks are touching on both sides?

Do you have any recommendations for a different set of locks? These are Howard’s 3/8” 7 degree, they suggested just trying a few different brands. I do not want to replace the valves either. This is on a set of 452 heads.
IMG_8363.jpeg
 
standup303 said:
Hey all, my exhaust valve locks are touching on both sides (left side of the pic). The intake have a small gap. From everything I’ve read, I should not run them if the locks are touching on both sides?

Do you have any recommendations for a different set of locks? These are Howard’s 3/8” 7 degree, they suggested just trying a few different brands. I do not want to replace the valves either. This is on a set of 452 heads.View attachment 1716279030
Click to expand...
What are the cam & spring load specs? I just grind one edge on each lock half & check 'em on a spare valve, if the specs are mild it's not a big deal, but otherwise I make sure they won't butt.
This was actually an inexpensive ingenious exh. valve rotator from Mopar, the rounded polished multi-grooved locks will let the valve turn, grab a valve & install the locks & retainer pull & twist and You'll see.
 
Keep in mind, lots of times the intake and exhaust stems are different sizes. This could easily account for the difference in the gaps.
 
Killer6 said:
What are the cam & spring load specs? I just grind one edge on each lock half & check 'em on a spare valve, if the specs are mild it's not a big deal, but otherwise I make sure they won't butt.
This was actually an inexpensive ingenious exh. valve rotator from Mopar, the rounded polished multi-grooved locks will let the valve turn, grab a valve & install the locks & retainer pull & twist and You'll see.
Click to expand...
Howard’s Hydraluic roller Lift: .530 / .530, Duration @ .050: 235 / 243, Centerline: 103

Howard’s springs
Closed Pressure:
 120 @ 1.875
Open Pressure:
 425 @ 1.110
Rate:
 399
Max Lift:
 .735
Coil Bind:
 1.080
 
They don't touch.
 
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What valves are you running? Are they single groove? or multi groove? If they are OE exhaust valves they are multi groove.. OE Exhaust valves are designed with multi grooves to allow the valve to rotate.. The keeper ends are supposed to butt together...

If your running single groove valves & single groove keepers then your correct, they should not butt....
 
1WildRT said:
What valves are you running? Are they single groove? or multi groove? If they are OE exhaust valves they are multi groove.. OE Exhaust valves are designed with multi grooves to allow the valve to rotate.. The keeper ends are supposed to butt together...

If your running single groove valves & single groove keepers then your correct, they should not butt....
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All OE valves, the exhaust are 4 groove and butt together. The intake are 2 groove and have a small gap with the new retainers and locks from Howard’s.
 
I always grind a small amount of the locks so that they do not touch. If the locks touch, your valve is 'loose' inside the locks which in my opinion is not a good idea for a performance engine...
 
Bewy said:
I always grind a small amount of the locks so that they do not touch. If the locks touch, your valve is 'loose' inside the locks which in my opinion is not a good idea for a performance engine...
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agreed, we once had a 351 cleveland ford drop a valve and destroy everything but one cylinder head. that had valve rotators. to be fair it was at just under 7000rpm. :rofl:
neil.
 
mygasser said:
agreed, we once had a 351 cleveland ford drop a valve and destroy everything but one cylinder head. that had valve rotators. to be fair it was at just under 7000rpm. :rofl:
neil.
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Yeah, that’s pretty high rpm for locks that don’t lock to the valve.

I know guys that do it but running solid lifters with those lock usually kills the valve and the lock.
 
Killer6 said:
A hydraulic roller with those spring specs You feel OK with letting those locks butt??? Not Me..
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I personally don’t like locks that let the valves rotate.

I wouldn’t ever use that type of lock with solid lifters because the lash getting taken up beats the locks and valves pretty good.

I’ve taken some apart used with solid lifters and the grooves in the valves and locks were so blown out they were sharp. So sharp you could almost shave with the valve.

How that didn’t fail surprised me.

But with hydraulic lifters there isn’t lash in the system, or shouldn’t be so it doesn’t beat on them.
 
Member Cannucky brought me his used heads from an engine builder.
The rocker shaft were worn, rockers also needed bushings.
His keepers didn't have gaps, something seemed funny as I tapped the retainers to release the keepers.
Long story short, the ridges of the keepers were near gone.
The valve grooves were also worn.
This engine was soooo close to dropping a valve, and he was a very spirited driver.
This was a short while after he walked into my shop and threw a Comp cam on the ground, - it had worn lobes .
I don't use Comp anymore, cuz of this and other sub-standard issues.
You need nothing but Good Luck if you use Comp . jmexperiece.
 
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Inertia said:
Member Cannucky brought me his used heads from an engine builder.
The rocker shaft were worn, rockers also needed bushings.
His keepers didn't have gaps, something seemed funny as I tapped the retainers to release the keepers.
Long story short, the ridges of the keepers were near gone.
The valve grooves were also worn.
This engine was soooo close to dropping a valve, and he was a very spirited driver.
This was a short while after he walked into my shop and threw a Comp cam on the ground, - it had worn lobes .
I don't use Comp anymore, cuz of this and other sub-standard issues.
You need nothing but Good Luck if you use Comp . jmexperiece.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard to stay away from Comp so many times. Amazing anyone still buys their products.
 
1WildRT said:
What valves are you running? Are they single groove? or multi groove? If they are OE exhaust valves they are multi groove.. OE Exhaust valves are designed with multi grooves to allow the valve to rotate.. The keeper ends are supposed to butt together...

If your running single groove valves & single groove keepers then your correct, they should not butt....
Click to expand...
Look at any factory mopar head with the 4 groove locks. Intake and exhaust all the locks but together. I went thu this in 2020. Got locks from 4 different places. All butted together on the Mopar valves. I don’t like it but that’s how it is. Then I check about 10 factory heads and that’s how they are. But I would run them with any more than 300 lbs open pressure. Kim
 
standup303 said:
Ended up grinding the locks down a bit so they don’t touch
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Sounds like you already did your fix. I was going to suggest trying mix and matching different keepers to see if you could get the clearance you were looking for. I imagine there has to be some dimensional differences even among the same P/N. Nobody builds to exact (.0000) tolerances.
 
Sounds like you already did your fix.
Click to expand...

It’s not really a “fix”, it’s a modification.

The locks for 4 groove valves are designed to contact each other, which allows the valve to float/rotate within the locks.
 
middleagecrisis said:
Sounds like you already did your fix. I was going to suggest trying mix and matching different keepers to see if you could get the clearance you were looking for. I imagine there has to be some dimensional differences even among the same P/N. Nobody builds to exact (.0000) tolerances.
Click to expand...
There is no tolerance problem, as I & (?)# Members have pointed out, they (the 4-groove exh.) are designed to butt stock.
 
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