Vortech blown 360 dyno day

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Bill Dedman

bill dedman
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Well, I finally got my ol' junk on a dyno, today and to my delight (and, surprise) it didn't cough its cookies at 6 grand!

Here are the engine specs:

Stock bore and stroke 360 Magnum with about 16,000 miles on the clock, with stock cast pistons, rods and crank... factory rings, head gaskets, and balance.

Stock compression ratio (measured 9:1.) Virtually, a stock 360 Magnum short block, except for the cam.

Stock Magnum heads with a TINY bit of bowl porting; no gasket matching at all, and no combustion chamber polishing/grinding. Three-angle valve job, back-cut valves. Stock size valves (OEM valves.)

Hughes hydraulic roller reground cam with 214/218 degrees duration @ .050"
lift, ground with 114-degrees of lobe separation; .525"-lift at the valve with Crane 1.6 (stock ratio) needle-bearing aluminum rockers. 300# (open,) valve springs and chromemoly, heavy-duty push-rods from Hughesengines.

Windage tray; stock pickup and oil pump. Stock-configuration, center-sump, oil pan.

M-P distributor from Summit, untouched. 8 mm Taylor Cable ignition wires,

TTI step headers and complete H-pipe exhaust (2.5"; Dyno-Max Super Turbo Mufflers.) Dump tubes (for open exhaust.)

Tall M-P Magnum valve covers (to clear the roller rockers.)

Home-made mounting plate for Vortech V-1, S-Trim supercharger with an "Extreme Velocity" carb hat atop a "BLOW-THROUGH" 4150 Holley 750 double pumper from the Carb Shop in Ontario, CA.

Crosswind "Air Gap"-style intake manifold.

MSD analog ignition provided by the module inside their "BoostMaster" spark-retard, plus an MSD "Blaster" coil. Cold NGK plugs (can't remember the part number; sorry.)

Homemade blower discharge plumbing from the blower to the carb hat.

Snowperformance Boost Cooler Stage I alcohol injection system.

In a 3,340-pound car with a 250 pound driver, 3.55:1 limited-slip rear end, it ran 7.59 @ 93.6 mph in the eighth with a miserable 1.81 60-foot time (it was cold and there was NO bite to be had!) That was a 9.74 @ 105+ mph in 1,000 feet.

Today, I took it to a dyno shop which said it made 445 rear wheel horsepower on 10 pounds of boost, and 470 foot pounds of rear wheel torque. The thing won't pull much past 5,400... no sense running it to 6 grand, the dyno operator said.

The dyno operator also said it was way too rich, and that I could probably make nearly 500 RWH if I wanted to lean it down, but "pig rich" is "safe" for these worthless-for-supercharging hypereutectic pistons, so, I declined.

I've been posting about this car for a long time; I am glad I can finally post some real numbers about what you can do with a 360 Magnum without doing hardly anything at all to the heads.

The 445 horsepower isn't very impressive unless you grew up in the '50's like I did, when a fast car was anything that could run quicker than 17 flat!!! LOL!

How times change...

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Can you say badass sleeper?

Way to go Bill! :cheers:

Where did you find the supercharger?
 
Impressive Bill,been following as you,ve posted.You must have had a big grin at the end of the track?Did someone throw spagetti at your motor?LOL!!Just kidding!Time for some zip ties!Job well done!
 
Impressive Bill,been following as you,ve posted.You must have had a big grin at the end of the track?Did someone throw spagetti at your motor?LOL!!Just kidding!Time for some zip ties!Job well done!
 
Very impressive Bill,my 416 stroker only cranked out 406 at the rear wheels but it ran 6.90's in the 1/8th,1.40's in the 60' so get those 4.10's in there get it to hook and your in business:thumbrig::thumbrig:
 
Bill,

445 at the rear wheels and 0 to 105+ in less then 10 seconds with no traction IS impressive!! That torque curve is pretty dang flat too. With a bigger cam, you would hit 500+ at the rear wheels easy, not to mention the jetting changes the dyno operator suggested. I'll bet that you're pushing about 530 hp at the crank.

That engine must idle pretty smooth too with that cam.

Great work Bill, you must be proud. I love the sleeper look and dog dishes. Are you thinking of finding some sectioned steel wheels for the rear to complete the look?

Joe
 
A huge THANKS to all of you for your kind comments. I'll try to answer some of your questions, here.

I got the blower off ebay for $1,000, still new in the box. Total cost of this project topped 4 grand, with at least $1,000 in the fuel lines, 2 pumps, fuel cell, regulator and $$$$ for all the many A-N fittings I had to buy. The silicone hose I used was $2.98 a linear foot, and I used a lot of it...

I'm not sure a longer-duration cam would produce more hp, but maybe. On the Hughes website, beside the specs for this cam, it says "GOOD SUPERCHARGER CAM." so, I dunno; would be worth a try, for sure!

The spaghetti comment I surely deserve; neatness is a virtue I haven't mastered, yet... but, I'm workin' on it! LOL! Got the twist-ties ordered!!! LOL!

I already have some 7"-wide, 15" "dog dish" steel rear wheels; they have street tires on them; thought the Centerlines would be better at the strip... (MUCH lighter).
My dog dish hubcaps are '64 Valiant items that I bought off ebay in honor of my other Valiant, a '340-powered '64 V-100 2-door post car that I sold in 1980 when I moved from Iowa to California. Only car I ever owned that never got outrun... you gotta love a car like that!!! LOL!

Yes, I woke up smiling, today, and the beat goes on.... LOL!

I'll smile a lot more when I can get some decent 60-foot times.

Workin' on that!

Thanks again, guys, for all your encouragement and kind comments.

The folks on this forum are like no other..... the absolute best!!!

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This was a long, uphill battle for me, as I fell ill in July and spent three months in the hospital getting skin grafts done on my left lower leg, so that slowed me down somewhat.

One of the most daunting things about this project was that I had to make the mounting plate for the supercharger. Vortech doesn't have a "kit" for an A-Body car, but they DO have a kit for a Magnum-powered Dakota pickup. The problem with that setup is that it mounts the blower up high on the engine (as best as I could tell from pictures) which I was afraid my hood line would not allow without a tall scoop.

I didn't want a hood scoop if I could avoid it, so I bought some half-inch aluminum plate (356-T-6) and made a plate that would mount the blower on the driver's side of the engine, over where the battery used to be. Moved it to the trunk.

When I made this plate (band-sawed it out of a large piece of plate material), I ended up with enough plate material left over for two more.

I took the plate material and the one I'd just sawed out, to a machine shop that has a water/media cutter and had them cut out two more mounting plates. (See attached picture.) I sold one to somebody who thinks they want to try this forced induction setup and had decided that the way I did it might work for them.

I don't need but one, so if anybody thinks they want to Vortech supercharge a 318 or 360 Magnum in an A-Body, I'll sell the other one for; $100.00.... about what I have in it.

I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THAT ANYBODY SUPERCHARGE THEIR ENGINE!!!

Not at all... It's tons of work and expense, and the learning curve is steep.
However, there are still people who enjoy a challenge, and this one-off mounting plate will get whoever uses it, over a rough spot....

All I can provide is the plate; the standoffs are 81 mm long and could be easily made out of thick-walled pipe, although I used 1" aluminum rod, bored through the middle, longitudinally. The plate mounts to the accessory holes in the front of Magnum heads and to the top of the water pump housing (I think). I'll try to find a better picture of that and post it here.

Just thought I'd post that for anyone who might be interested.

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Are you running a bypass valve?

Paint it orange like in Duel LOL!

Steve
 
Yes, I am running a blowoff valve (see attached photo.)

Insofar as it outrunning the ugliest semi on the planet (DUEL),I'd hope I could get away from him... but I don't look much like Dennis Weaver.... LOL!

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I'm curious why the alcohol injection as opposed to an intercooler or aftercooler. Seems like a plumbing nightmare, a fire trap should something go wrong (street car...lol), and a lot of expense. Also... what kind of milage do you get from the alcohol tank in the trunk? What do you fill it with?
 
Moper,

A bodies have small engine compartments, as I'm sure you know. I REALLY wanted a turbocharged 360 instead of a supercharged one, but since I don't weld (don't even own one), and have zero fabrication experience, I decided that a belt-driven supercharger would be more fitting to my limited fabrication "skills" (or, lack of them.)

In that vein, I started looking around for an intercooler setup that I could use with the blower setup I was assembling and discovered "chemical intercooling," which requires very little in the way of fabrication or room.

BTW, the fuel-cell in the trunk is for av-gas, not alcohol. I retained my original tank under the trunk floor, and use it for everyday, daily-driver operation, with 93-octane pump gas in it. My dual-fuel system consists of fuel lines and diverter valves that allow me to run either tank through either of two fuel pumps (a Holley Blue low-pressure -14 psi- pump under the floor) and a high pressure -31 psi- pump in the trunk. That gives me the option of running more spark advance due to the higher octane of the av-gas, at the strip, and daily driving is relegated to the 93 octane gas in the OEM tank, using more spark retard. It's a 2-minute job to switch tanks and pumps; just turn some diverter-valve handles, and two switches; one on, one off. That's what all that hose in the trunk is all about.

The Snowperformance Boost Cooler Stage I alcohol injector consists of a 140 psi "sprayer" that injects a fine spray of alcohol into the incoming pressurized air that has been heated, unfortunately, by the blower's impeller. The spray takes a lot of the heat back out of it, just like an intercooler, and adds some high-octane alcohol as "fuel" in the process. Air-to-air intercoolers are like little radiators, and require a place, usually in front of the radiator. to get air flow for charge cooling. My particular car just didn't have any room behind the radiator to mount an intercooler. At least, that's how it appeared to me. So, I went to http://www.snowperformance.net/ and looked at their chemical intercoolers and decided that one of their Stage I units might be just what I needed to keep the demons of detonation away. That, along with the MSD BoostMaster spark retard unit seems to be working, for the moment. I have 6 drag strip runs and 3 dyno pulls on it and haven't seen evidence of any engine damage so far. With OEM cast pistons and stock, composition head gaskets, I can't afford even "trace" detonation under boost, as I'm sure you're aware.

The Boost Cooler was a very easy installation and takes up very little room. It consists of a 12-volt pump about the size of a regular can of beans, and an alky tank, which is actually a windshield washer reservoir, and some small-diameter tubing to connect the pump to the blower discharge pipe. There's a Hobbs (adjustable pressure) switch that turns the pump on and off at your choice of boost pressures (I have mine set to 3 psi of boost), and that's it except for an indicator light for the dash that lights up when it's spraying. The spray comes from a nozzle desighnes to atomize the alcohol, and has a jet behind it, for volume adjustment. I guess bigger, more powerful engines can use more alcohol.

If I had room for a regular intercooler, I might have used one, but after reading the reports on chemical intercooling, with a low-boost application like this, I'm not really sure which is best. This seems to do the job, so far.

Thanks for your interest!
 
Bill, Now it makes more sense to me. I've worked with procharger stuff, Fords and a couple GMs. But really it's not my cup of tea..lol. What I have seen is the Vortec aftercooler setup. It's a very compact water to air heat exchanger that goes between the blower output and the carb hat. It is a closed system, with it's own little radiator and pump for the water. the kit was for LS1 GMs in the early 2000s. In any event, a typical air to air custom intercooler would lower the charge by about 90° dependant on boost IIRC. These were units with cores about 6" by 15". The aftercooler was an enclosed aluminum box about 5"x8", and cooled the charge by 120° at 10psi. Very cool (pun intended) system, and never needed any topping off. Anyway, I agree on the hyper piston thing. You'll know immediately if you have a detonation issue...lol. I saw plenty of Mod motors full of previously cast piston bits back when Sean Hyland was starting to do them. I can appreciate your reasons. It's a great result so have some fun. Nice job Bill.
 
Thats a very cool idea!

What do you use for alcohol? Isopropyl? Pure or diluted? Jack Daniels? haha...

How economical is this setup compared to using an intercooler?
 
Thanks, Moper; I knew you'd have some good information; you always do!

I think for now, I'm going to stick with the Snow-manufactured chemical cooler, just because it's what I have, and it seems to be working, at least, so far. I just bought a 4" crank, and a set of Eagle rods; still need forged pistons, so it'll be awhile before I have THAT puppy operational, but when and IF I ever get the stroker running, I may think about switching to a REAL intercooler, one way or another. At that time, I may introduce a second Vortech blower that I have into the mix by modifying the carb "hat" to a "Y"-configuration and running both blowers into the carb.

BOOST IS ADDICTIVE!!!:angry7:

Thanks for the info; I didn't know about the water-to-air unit from Vortech; sounds like something I could use...

NEEDSARESTO, I have been running 100% methanol in the Boost Cooler reservoir, but on this page, http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=6 or, the page before, they recommend 49% alky and 51% water.

Most folks seem to just use windshield washer fluid.... so, I don't think it makes an awful lot of difference...

The Stage I Boost Cooler like I have sells on that website for $308.00, or so it says. I bought it a couple of years ago, so I'm not sure exactly what I paid, back then. Maybe a little less...

Intercoolers are like anything else; there are cheap ones and expensive ones... I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Sorry I couldn't be of more help on that issue, but I just really don't know.
 
Bill, I´m so happy for you with the results from the dyno.
You´ve done an awesome job on your Valiant, a true sleeper that I would take for a ride anytime.
I´m very grateful that I came in contact with you and that I was able to buy the other Vortech mounting plate from you. It´s a real master piece
and a great price for the mounting plate, even nicer then the one I got with the Vortech kit for my former Mustang.
 
I'm happy that you liked the plate; I hope it does the job for you!

Let me know of you need anything else in the way of measurements, or secifics of any kind, and thanks much for the gracious words!!!

Keep us posted on the 'cuda and send pics.... we LOVE pics!!! LOL!
 
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