W2 408 build

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cpearce

cpearce

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Hello all, it has been quite some time since I've posted on this site. It has taken me quite a while but my engine is finally finished. I thought I would take the time to share my build as I feel it turned out to be quite successful. One thing I learned along the way is that attention to details during the build can net serious returns of H.P. and torque while still remaining streetable. I was beginning to veer off into the verge of non streetable due to some of the things I was reading in various magazines. Fortunately I hooked up with a good friend who builds stock eliminator engines, he was able to help me make some changes in areas including camshaft and compression. I wish to make clear that I was looking to build a very hot street/strip combination that is both pump gas friendly and reliable, not a race engine.

89 360 LA roller cam block, tanked, .030 over, sonic checked, square decked, line bored, special hone finish. All pistons zero deck height.

Mopar performance W2 closed chamber race heads, milled to achieve 10.1:1 compression. Bronze 11/32 guides installed, five angle valve job, ported and polished. Valves are 2.080, 1.60 with 11/32 stems and length of 5.3". Head flow at .0600 is 293, and 193. Heads were not hogged right out for max flow numbers as we wanted to maintain decent port velocity and signal to carb.

Harland Sharp 1.6:1 roller rockers

Manton pushrods

K1 4340 crank with 360 mains and 2.1 rod journals. Crank checked for journal size and straightness.

Scat I beam 6.123" rods for .927" pins and 2.100" mains. Both ends resized out of the box.

Diamond 51406 forged Pistons. 4.030" bore, .927 pins, 20cc dish. My engine builder did not like the marks the total seal rings were leaving on the bores so he switched to Hastings rings.

ATI super damper

Melling standard volume oil pump clearance checked.

Mopar Performance timing chain tensioner

Mopar Performance p4529368 mechanical fuel pump

Rollmaster red series timing set

ARP main, head, and oil pan studs.

Milodon 30940 oil pan and windage tray.

McLeod 18 pound lightweight steel 130 tooth flywheel.

Rotating assembly balanced with balancer and flywheel.

Melling stock replacement hydraulic roller lifters.

Hughes custom grind hydraulic roller cam:
Duration at .050 is 237-241
Lobe lift .360-.363
Lobe separation angle is 106 degrees.
The lobe split was kept at 4 degrees to not over scavenge with the efficient exhaust port. We chose to put the lsa at a narrow 106 to help build cylinder pressure with our modest 10.1:1 compression and elevation of 3000 feet.

Intake manifold is Edelbrock Victor W2 which was port matched to heads.

Quick fuel Q-950 carburetor

Mopar Performance distributor, Rev-N-ator digital ignition box and coil.

TTI 1 5/8-1 3/4 w2 step headers

On the dyno we did all testing with water temperature at 170 degrees and with 94 octane pump gas and a very safe air fuel ratio to best simulate what street conditions would be like. Our best success was with 32 degrees timing. We limited our pulls to 5500 RPM as this is predominantly a street engine and I felt I had more than achieved what I had set out for. Neither of us wanted to find out the rpm limits of them hydraulic roller lifters although I'm sure 6000 rpm would have been safe. With the low end torque I don't see the need to spin rpm up much higher just for a dyno number. My car is a four speed so I will likely shift at 5700-5800 when at the track.

RPM HP TQ
2000 180 476
2100. 192. 480
2200. 199. 476
2300. 207. 472
2400. 214. 468
2500. 222. 467
2600. 233. 470
2700. 245. 475
2800. 257. 481
2900. 266. 482
3000. 273. 478
3100. 281. 476
3200. 290. 476
3300. 302. 480
3400. 314. 485
3500. 327. 491
3600. 345. 503
3700. 364. 517
3800. 378. 523
3900. 396. 533
4000. 417. 548
4100. 436. 558
4200. 449. 562
4300. 459. 562
4400. 470. 561
4500. 480. 560
4600. 490. 559
4700. 500. 559
4800. 509. 557
4900. 517. 554
5000. 520. 547
5100. 527. 542
5200. 534. 540
5300. 542. 536
5400. 544. 529

This engine is going into my 69 four speed swinger. I am using a McLeod rxt twin disc clutch. I have three centre sections set up with ratios of 3.55, 3.23, and 2.94's for longer trips. Exhaust is dual 3" with x pipe and dynomax ultra flow mufflers. Fuel lines upgraded to 3/8".

If anyone is interested in photos I have many, just ask. I am just in process of installing in car now. I'm hoping to have out by mid September.

Regards Chris
 
Good dyno numbers would like to see timeslips to back up the numbers
Very similar to my build
 
Like the tight love centers,with the four inch arm,and the quick four arm yank ,on the W2 's massaged.. (Piston speed ,plus well flowing heads,make for fun..Don't over gear it ..(just my opine...)...
 
This is a great build. With that kind of power spend the money and get a Clutch to get the car away from the starting line. I had a twin disc behind a 540ci full street car and was completely misguided about buying that clutch. I would love to hear the opinion your comp builder would have to say about the subject.

With a nice low gear in the tranny that thing will suck you in the seat and it will be a blast on the street....

JW
 
SLOPAR72 said:
This is a great build. With that kind of power spend the money and get a Clutch to get the car away from the starting line. I had a twin disc behind a 540ci full street car and was completely misguided about buying that clutch. I would love to hear the opinion your comp builder would have to say about the subject.

With a nice low gear in the tranny that thing will suck you in the seat and it will be a blast on the street....

JW
Click to expand...

You lost me at "carb'd", but I love what you did with the motor.
 
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Love the build. I built one VERY close to this and saw the same torque numbers 560+ . I would guess your engine would make 550hp @ 5700-5800 if you had of twisted it a little higher. Love your rod and piston choice. The Total Seals left marks that were dark shades sporadically around the bore didn't they? Im told it is because they are leaving out a polishing process after the oil expander is chromed and that it wont effect anything. But....Again nice build, that's gonna peg the happy meter. J.Rob
 
Nice power out of that combo. Is that corrected?

Not to hijack but... my iron headed 416 is very similar but you made almost 45 more hp than me! Huh.

My heads flow almost exactly the same as yours, my cam is a solid FT, 251/259 @ .050" with a 1.6 rocker, around 10.3:1 CR with a zero deck Diamond dish piston. I used Total Seal rings. I ran a 2.02 valve though, an 850 carb and a gasket matched Strip Dominator intake. Same exact rods.

I used a HV oil pump, my understanding is that those oil pumps can rob a little hp but it's a street engine, I guess I was just stuck on the idea I needed an HV.

Hard to believe I left 45 hp on the table with those parts. I know a Victor could be 10-15 but the rest does not add up. Oh well, nice job should be fun. Would like to hear results when you get it down the track.
 
rmchrgr said:
Nice power out of that combo. Is that corrected?

Not to hijack but... my iron headed 416 is very similar but you made almost 45 more hp than me! Huh.

My heads flow almost exactly the same as yours, my cam is a solid FT, 251/259 @ .050" with a 1.6 rocker, around 10.3:1 CR with a zero deck Diamond dish piston. I used Total Seal rings. I ran a 2.02 valve though, an 850 carb and a gasket matched Strip Dominator intake. Same exact rods.

I used a HV oil pump, my understanding is that those oil pumps can rob a little hp but it's a street engine, I guess I was just stuck on the idea I needed an HV.

Hard to believe I left 45 hp on the table with those parts. I know a Victor could be 10-15 but the rest does not add up. Oh well, nice job should be fun. Would like to hear results when you get it down the track.
Click to expand...
What heads ??
 
rmchrgr said:
Nice power out of that combo. Is that corrected?

Not to hijack but... my iron headed 416 is very similar but you made almost 45 more hp than me! Huh.

My heads flow almost exactly the same as yours, my cam is a solid FT, 251/259 @ .050" with a 1.6 rocker, around 10.3:1 CR with a zero deck Diamond dish piston. I used Total Seal rings. I ran a 2.02 valve though, an 850 carb and a gasket matched Strip Dominator intake. Same exact rods.

I used a HV oil pump, my understanding is that those oil pumps can rob a little hp but it's a street engine, I guess I was just stuck on the idea I needed an HV.

Hard to believe I left 45 hp on the table with those parts. I know a Victor could be 10-15 but the rest does not add up. Oh well, nice job should be fun. Would like to hear results when you get it down the track.
Click to expand...

Hello rmchrgr,

Dyno sheets all say standard for correction factor. Sounds like you have a very nice combination yourself. The only comment I can really make with substance behind the possible reasons for difference in H.P. are the carb, and attention to detail. I do NOT mean your engine was not built with attention to detail, only that this engine was built by a gentleman who builds stock eliminator and Superstock engines and has very successful race cars. Much of the power from engines like he builds is from exact tolerances and such. These guys need to make huge power using engine building techniques I don't claim to know anything about. While engine was on his dyno he put on a proven Quick Fuel Q-850 as he felt the 950 might be to large. Much to both of our surprise the hp was down by 20 even with jetting changes.
 
cpearce said:
Hello rmchrgr,

Dyno sheets all say standard for correction factor. Sounds like you have a very nice combination yourself. The only comment I can really make with substance behind the possible reasons for difference in H.P. are the carb, and attention to detail. I do NOT mean your engine was not built with attention to detail, only that this engine was built by a gentleman who builds stock eliminator and Superstock engines and has very successful race cars. Much of the power from engines like he builds is from exact tolerances and such. These guys need to make huge power using engine building techniques I don't claim to know anything about. While engine was on his dyno he put on a proven Quick Fuel Q-850 as he felt the 950 might be to large. Much to both of our surprise the hp was down by 20 even with jetting changes.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I guess carbs can make a big difference sometimes.

My combo made 500.2 @ 6,000 rpm so a little higher up than yours. I saw my uncorrected hp flash over 520 hp on a few dyno pulls. It was a decent day out but the vapor pressure was a little high.

Let's say the Victor gives me 15 hp and the oil pump maybe 5-7, I guess the 950 could have given me 20 hp then I'd be pretty close to where you are. My headers are the same as yours, I think they work good. The guy that did my heads did not see any reason to go to a bigger primary tube.

Your torque curve looks similar to mine as well in how flat it is though you make way more than me. My peak torque was 500 ft lbs @ 4,800 rpm. However, it never went below 430 ft lbs. from about 3,500 rpm to 6,000 rpm. That's big block torque!

We spun mine up to 6,300 rpm but the returns started diminishing at that point.

Dyno tuning was minimal, it just didn't require a whole lot. It made best power around 12.9-13.1 AFR. We jetted down two sizes at one point and there was no difference really except for the AFR number on the dyno sheet so it is what it is. A bigger jet would have been wasting fuel.

Timing was started on the conservative side at 32 but was bumped up to 35.

I think it surprised the dyno guy, he laughed when I said it would make 500 and maybe 525.

Again, sounds like a good combo, you should be in the 10s with it if you can get it to hook with the 4 speed.
 
20160222_210211.jpg
IMG_4973.jpg
Here are a couple photos of my engine. I tried to make it look like a fairly stock 340.
 
Can you take a picture of the Oil Pan when you get everything tightened up? I am curious as to how low it sits. I did not realize you had already gotten the clutch I spoke about. Maybe you will figure how to get that bad boy away from the starting line and not break up a bunch of stuff like I did lol...... The is very clean looking piece...

JW
 
Nice! Looks cool. I wish you would have pushed the engine on the dyno just a bit more to see where it made peak HP and where it would have nosed over in power.

Who's Hyd. Roller lifters we're employed?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Nice! Looks cool. I wish you would have pushed the engine on the dyno just a bit more to see where it made peak HP and where it would have nosed over in power.

Who's Hyd. Roller lifters we're employed?
Click to expand...
Stock 5.9 replacement Melling jb-2225 lifters were used. Our hp gains were so low per hundred rpm at that point we did not see point of pushing further. I suspect peak would have been 5800rpm.
 
SLOPAR72 said:
Can you take a picture of the Oil Pan when you get everything tightened up? I am curious as to how low it sits. I did not realize you had already gotten the clutch I spoke about. Maybe you will figure how to get that bad boy away from the starting line and not break up a bunch of stuff like I did lol...... The is very clean looking piece...

JW
Click to expand...
I sure can send pic of fit once completely installed. I did need to notch k frame on passenger side for pan clearance. I'll send a photo of that also.
 
W2-1969Dart said:
Very nice build . Are you using 2 gaskets to get the valve covers to clear. I would be curious what the dyno numbers would of been with the stock exhaust manifolds to keep that stock appearance
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Thanks, I did use 2 of the rubber reusable gaskets for clearance. Now have some machined aluminum spacers. I do know the first headers on dyno with the egt probes were old 1 5/8 headers with LA flange. Once we switched to the TTI headers we gained 30 some HP. I suspect losses with manifolds would have been quite substantial, even more so due to the LA vs W2 flange missmatch.
 
Thank you everyone for all of your positive comments. Building and dyno testing this engine was a great experience. Now I am looking forward to running it in the car. Just fitting the quick time scatter shield now. I also replaced power steering with a fast ratio flaming river manual box, and SBC aluminum caliber discs up front.
 
Did you dyno test with that specific air cleaner pictured?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Did you dyno test with that specific air cleaner pictured?
Click to expand...
No rumble, used a proper velocity stack with air flow meter on dyno. I did however get a new 13"x4" k&n filter for that air cleaner which looks mostly stock but has an inch of exposed filter at bottom of lid in an attempt to allow better airflow. I'm using this with an aftermarket dropped base so overall height should be almost the same.
 
Thanks. I was wondering if it , the air cleaner, was a restriction anywhere. There is actually a lot of area in the gap around the base and the lid but did t know if it restricted anything.
Perhaps one day I'll get there.....
It will probably be a on the track test rather than dyno.
 
Ahhhh cool a dyno shot, nice.
It looks as exotic as a brink and will hit like one too! To those inspecting fools!
Baha ha ha ha.....
 
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