Want it to handle like a new car!!!

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yellow73dart

yellow73dart

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Ok heres what I've got. Its a 72 demon. I'm putting a 318 in it for now with hopes for something bigger later. I already have a very strong 318, 904 combo. I also have a factory 318 k-member out of a 74 swinger. I took the large bolt pattern disc brakes and 8 1/4 rear end while I was at it. Now to make it work right. I want to make handle as good or better than a new car off the lot. Should I go with factory rubber with a sway bar or poly? What size sway bar should I use or does it really need one? What about bushings for the rear springs? What are your thoughts for a very reliable street car that may see a little bit of fun every now and then?
 
Poly bushings for sure! The stock sway bar from the 73 is fine for right now but youll want to upgrade later. I would use at a min. Of 340/360 torsion bar, and upgrade to 1" bars down the road.
That being said if you want true modern type feel you need to change tue front and rear suspension like going the RMS front end and rear end street lynx kits. To run the rear end kit though you'll need to either use a 9"ford or 8 3/4 or Dana 60 rear end.
Talk to Abodyjoe if you want more info on the serums because he has them on his yellow dart.
 
Mine might handle more like a new truck, but here's what really made a difference for me.
Energy suspension 1-1/8" sway bar with poly bushings. 340 sized torsion bars, Moog offset upper control arm bushings, poly strut rod bushings, and re-arched hd leaf springs with poly bushings.
Energy has discontinued the sway bar kit, but I think Hotchkiss still makes something comparable. The poly leaf bushings were also a huge improvement for not much money.
Wheels and tires are my weak link. BFGs on cop wheels will only do so much...
 
yellow73dart said:
Ok heres what I've got. Its a 72 demon. I'm putting a 318 in it for now with hopes for something bigger later. I already have a very strong 318, 904 combo. I also have a factory 318 k-member out of a 74 swinger. I took the large bolt pattern disc brakes and 8 1/4 rear end while I was at it. Now to make it work right. I want to make handle as good or better than a new car off the lot. Should I go with factory rubber with a sway bar or poly? What size sway bar should I use or does it really need one? What about bushings for the rear springs? What are your thoughts for a very reliable street car that may see a little bit of fun every now and then?
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pm GMachineDartGT. he has a nice reipe for ya. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/member.php?u=2759


i would go 1+" torsion bars and a big set of sway bars. don't forget 17 or 18" rims and tires to complete it. and good shocks is a must.
 
I have looked at the RMS kits before. They look great but they're expensive. I was hoping to find something a little more down to earth for the working mans salary. I can afford larger torsion bars and a sway bar. How much can I expect to spend on poly bushings? I can compromise with a new truck feal.
 
You want it to handle like a new car? Put the cheapest shocks, tires and suspension you can find, raise the back end with shackles, fill your master cylinder 1/2 way add power steering and power brakes, a thumper sound system and start hitting the corners.

You want it to handle better, listen to what these guys have to say:)
 
I would like to add..... matched set of front AND rear sway bars. !!!!
They will make a world of difference and take care of the "plow" inherent in cars with no rear bar.
Even a 1 ton truck will benefit from a rear bar, inspite of stiff springs.
Just ask my brother after he installed an 1 and 1/2 inch one from the back of a Ford dually....

SwayBar-1.jpg


SwayBar-2.jpg
 
Maybe autoxcuda will pop in, he did his car in stages, but the outcome is definately A+. Also, wracks has a very simple and effective setup going that handled insanely well.
Here's a vid of wracks71 duster in action.8)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4sTibFkxTY"]YouTube - Peach State Musclecar Challenge Autocross - Wracker's 71 Duster - ProTouring[/ame]

I just forwarded his suspension mods to you:-D
 
yellow73dart said:
I got them, Thanks. This is cool! I was thinking of a nice street car. I didn't think the (mostly stock) suspension would be capable of handling like that on a track. This just gave me a hole new set of ideas :snakeman:
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It's all about the combination of parts and pieces you put together. Just like drag racing, sometimes, the simplest, cheapest setup will dominate some guy who just threw $3k at his car just off whats popular.8)
 
DarTT said:
It's all about the combination of parts and pieces you put together. Just like drag racing, sometimes, the simplest, cheapest setup will dominate some guy who just threw $3k at his car just off whats popular.8)
Click to expand...

So true! It pays to use your head. Whats popular is not always the best, and the best is not always popular.
 
yellowdartdave said:
I think Wrack's needs some stickier back tires...or a throttle stop !!
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I think some Nitto NT555Rs would fix that problem, that's what tire I plan on using. A lot of people around here use them in drift and auto-x events. The NT05Rs are a little more drag oriented with their soft sidewalls
 
What kind of HP is he running? I don't think my lil old 318 will do that unless I just stomped it to the floor. I guess what I'm getting at is, how much HP would you need to be competitive?
 
I think getting in the range of 400hp to 450 is really in a good competitive range. But thats my opinion. I just pm'd wracks71 what kind of numbers he makes. Im pretty sure its not over 550 at the most
 
DarTT said:
I think getting in the range of 400hp to 450 is really in a good competitive range. But thats my opinion. I just pm'd wracks71 what kind of numbers he makes. Im pretty sure its not over 550 at the most
Click to expand...

I could do that. I'm only planning on using the 318 intell I get one of my 360's built. I'm thinking a 408 stroker would be nice.
 
If you go back through the back issues of the Mopar mags (don't recall whether it was Mopar Muscle or Mopar Action) from earlier this year there was an article where they put the Hotchkiss kit on a B-body and tested the handling at each step.

The Hotchkiss stuff is not cheap but it can be done in stages or by reading the article you could likely do similar things with parts from other manufacturers or make them your self for considerably less.

FWIW, my 68 Barracuda had a recently rebuilt front suspension with rubber bushings. When I did the 73+ disk brake swap I rebuilt the doner car suspension pieces with polygraphite bushings. I did not notice any improvement with the polygraphite bushings and did not notice any degradation in the ride quality either. But within a couple of months the poly strut rod bushings started to squeak (I did use the special grease provided with the kit). It was bad enough that it was embarassing to drive into a cruise night with the car. You could make it stop for a week or so by spraying lub on the bushings but it would come back. I finally took the front end apart again and went back to Moog rubber bushings. The shackle bushings are poly grahite too but they went about three years before starting to squeak, they are easy enough to remove and regrease that I did and its been fine since last spring.

If you are going to make a track car the poly bushings are probally a good thing but I don't think they are needed for a excellent handling street car and you won't have to contend with the squeaking.

I would venture a guess that the majority of folks that report a dramatic improvement with poly bushings are going from a worn out rubber bushing front end and those that haven't had squeaking issues likely don't drive 6-7k miles a year.
 
yellow73dart said:
I could do that. I'm only planning on using the 318 intell I get one of my 360's built. I'm thinking a 408 stroker would be nice.
Click to expand...
Yep! Im building a mild 340 that will get 400 or close. Up until I can get some aluminum heads.8) BTW, wracks just PM'd me back and his engine is right at like 400hp.:cheers:
 
Would someone actually post up what the good combos are that they used or stuff others have used?
 
Don't have a lot of time to go into right now. Will do that later this evening...

But starting with the original poster, yellow340Dart...

1) You are just looking for reliable street car with improved handling and good road feel, correct?
2) Not really pushing it hard and being real agressive around corners with it.
3) And you are looking to do it in stages? A budget build?
4) I assume you are in the process or planning in rebuilding the front end right now?

-Moog 7103 UCA bushing installed for more caster
-stock rubber LCA bushings
-moog front end parts
-poly strut rod bushings, factory strut rods you have now. Rear bushing cut down 3/16"
-Those $165? T-bars that are on sale right now 1.03"?
-Hotchkis Bilstein Shocks
-Hotchkis or Hellwig front and rear sway bars
-Evalute you power steering gearbox, if you have the money get a www.firmfeel.com unit.
-Align to 4-5 degress postive caster, 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe in.

Look at some Mustang used tire/rim setups with 245/45/17 tire and 17x8 rims. You'll need spacers in the rear and maybe front. www.lugnutking.com has great prices and billet spacers.

Done, enjoy, and have fun. Save money for next steps...

I basically ran that setup for 13 years. Autocrossed it, road raced it, drove 80 miles to work round trip in it, drove it halfway across country a handfull of times...

Pics from 1994 to 1995 era...
 

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