What's with auto body people? . . . .

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v8scamp

v8scamp

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Wynne, Ar
so i just basically got laughed out of 2 auto body shops today. both told me don't waste my time or money on either of my cars.
my daughters car (71 scamp) needs a complete frame and they both said they wouldn't touch it. they suggested if i HAD to do one they'd swap everything over to my 72 scamp bc at least its solid. also said don't expect to get much for it WHEN i decide to sell. (no thanks for your opinion you richie rich asshole)
mine is just a shell right now with a few dings, a crease on rear quarter(thanks to my "friend" helping me move it today), no rust through on outside of the body, and pin holes in the floors and trunk.
my daughters would be a driver just needs the frame repaired to raise the front end and to have something to mount exhaust to. crappy paint job and not so good body work with decent enough interior. she likes it so that's good enough for me and her.
should i swap everything over and paint and body mine or do the frame repair on hers? my problem is I CAN'T WELD (my reason for going to body shops)so i need someone to do this for me or give me a lot of help and/or guidance.

i'm sure you all know what rusted frame looks like so no pics of those but a few of my 72...and her 71

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I've been told by a couple of auto body shops that they don't even bother with restorations and rust repair jobs becasue they can make more money in a short time by just doing insurance claims and crash repair. The shops that said they would work on my car would not give an estimate and said that they would just charge materials and an hourly shop rate. Hard to budget for this. Probably not worth dealing with these shops anyway ... if they don't regularly do restorations they probably wouldn't live up to most of our standards.
 
Pick yourself up a MIG welder and start practicing. You'll learn something new, AND get the satisfaction of knowing that YOU did it YOURSELF.
 
Well.... Honestly... You could go buy a nice driver for less than the shop cost you are looking at.

They were probably helping you out by turning you away.
 
Body guys are temperamental fume sniffing flakes. Your guys have no manners to boot.

If the car needs a new unibody (no separate frame), do exactly that, find another body. Rust free 72 Scamp/Swinger bodies aren't hard to find. You wouldn't believe what it cost me to get rid of one a couple years ago.

Part of what makes A-bodies so fun is that they are cheap and plentiful. They were cheap cars when new, they made a bajillion of them, and they will never be worth a whole lot. Have fun, but don't spend $10,000 fixing up a $5,000 car.
 
The car is worth what you want it to be, just don't expect to sell it for that. In short, its a project for a reason, the fun and feeling of accomplishment when you do it yourself. If I find more rust on the frame of any of mine, I'm stripping the body, flipping it over and welding in new frame metal. In the NE US, finding a rust free Dart is like finding gold at the end of a rainbow, so I'll stick with the cars I have.
 
C130 Chief said:
Body guys are temperamental fume sniffing flakes. Your guys have no manners to boot.quote]

I take offense to that because i worked in a shop with a lot of great guys that were nothing like that and the owner is a great guy as well. They aren't all like that...

Sorry to hear about these guys being such assholes man. But I do suggest practicing welding and maybe trying things yourself. The cost to have that done would be more than finding another car...
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If you really look around you will probably find a body shop that is hungry enough to do the work but if it needs a compete frame replacement you need a lot of bucks and a really qualified shop to do it right. Better off getting a decent driver and move all the decent stuff off the rusted one.

Larry
 
WOW, This is a wide thread. Sounds like there is some sentimental value here.
If a genuine body shop is hungry there is a reason. Then again they maybe just starting out too. You're in Wynne? Not too far south of me. I can do everything your asking for and have on my own personal cars with great success and a very nice outcome. I've never done any work for individuals. I'll use MeMike as a reference. I'f i can be of help PM me. I'm in West Plains, Mo . Like said earlier, most shop[s make good money on insurance jobs. Good luck.
Small Block
 
I've worked in bodyshops and in restoration shops..they are two different animals. Bodyshops work on a get em in, get em out theory...the high volume production shop. That is the complete opposite of a restoration shop, where you drop your car off, and 18 months later pick up a better than new 40 year old musclecar. Try a shop that specializes in restorations...or a frame shop, you might have better luck.
 
1967DartGT said:
I've been told by a couple of auto body shops that they don't even bother with restorations and rust repair jobs becasue they can make more money in a short time by just doing insurance claims and crash repair. The shops that said they would work on my car would not give an estimate and said that they would just charge materials and an hourly shop rate. Hard to budget for this. Probably not worth dealing with these shops anyway ... if they don't regularly do restorations they probably wouldn't live up to most of our standards.
Click to expand...

All of the collision shops I've worked for wouldn't get into something this big on an antique. Quarters, maybe, but anything structural, no. Not enough money in it. That's the main reason they shy away from it. The insurance work pays big for the amount of time it takes and it's guaranteed money. In the time it would take to do a private pay job like this one or two collision jobs have to be put on the back burner or are lost to others shops. And for those shops who do get into "restorations" you're right. The standards aren't there. Bondo is cheap and it's just an old car, so give a quick paint job, I didn't charge the guy very much, I've been told at a few of the lesser shops I've worked for.
 
One of my best friends is a body man and he'd probably laugh me out of his shop should I ask him to paint my Cuda. As already mentioned, reason is the insurance claims are far more lucrative. Not that he has not tried to service the car hobby, in fact he always has a project of his own going on, but to do a proper restoration almost always requires far more work than the customer imagines and if the results are not what the customer imagines as perfect, payment trouble is usually not far behind. Far too many people watch TV and expect their cars will be fully restored in two weeks. Rush jobs mean corners will be cut. I used to watch American Hot Rod and I swore I would never let Boyd Coddington, (rest his soul), touch one of my cars because he would always push his deadlines over quality of work. Same deal with the Barrett-Jackson auctions. Lovely cars, but those prices! I remember one over ambitious eBay auction where the seller was posting his Q/A's and someone accused him of having Barrett-Jackson syndrome. Hilarious stuff, pure entertainment.

Back in the real world, looks like you already have some good advice. Personally, I'd look for a better candidate than the brown car, green car should be easy, but depends on what shape the frame rails are in. Join local car clubs, find out who may tackle this sort of work and who you should avoid. Swap work you can perform for work you cannot. I can't paint to save my life and my bodywork has been known to cause seasickness, but I'll tackle any electrical work and that has often been enough to cut me some slack at ny buddy's body shop. He has a hatred of "snakes", (as he calls electrical wires). Finally, don't fixate on the final value of the car. Accept that you always will have more into the car than you could sell it for. I don't think you could buy a decent driver for $5K as suggested, but a finished car, even with a few flaws could bring $15K. Trouble is, you will have $25K into it.
 
Not offended by your idea of body guy's,Been doing it for a hobbie for over 28 years now,the problem is that materials and shop time are the best deal for the customer but who can say how long it will actually take to give an accurate estimate?you get started on the job and theres more rust to be repaired before the frame pieces can be put in,the new frame section needs sandblasting and painting theres a lot of unseen work to it,most shops that do give an estimate have to shoot it up to the moon to make sure they don't screw them selves,and to give a customer a good job takes more time than it might seem.that's why a lot of folks here at f.a.b.o. do this work themselves and the paint work and the body work so I guess we all tempermental fume sniffing flakes???.
C130 Chief said:
Body guys are temperamental fume sniffing flakes. Your guys have no manners to boot.

If the car needs a new unibody (no separate frame), do exactly that, find another body. Rust free 72 Scamp/Swinger bodies aren't hard to find. You wouldn't believe what it cost me to get rid of one a couple years ago.

Part of what makes A-bodies so fun is that they are cheap and plentiful. They were cheap cars when new, they made a bajillion of them, and they will never be worth a whole lot. Have fun, but don't spend $10,000 fixing up a $5,000 car.
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I consider myself a mechanical guy, but I do a fair bit of body repairs and paint. I am not restoration quality and I'll admit it. But if you came to me (and remember I dont do it to pay for my house) I'd more than likely tell you not to too. Why? I've been there. Regardless of resale value, some times you just can't see charging what the job is worth. A non pedigre car that can be easilly replaced? If this is sentimental, that's ok. But if that's the case you wouldnt be asking "how much?" It would be "do it". Rust is not like a blown engine. There you have a good idea that's all that broke. Rust gets everywhere and what you see is literally the tip of the iceberg. If it needs frame rails it will need floors and possibly rockers. A shop that does this professionally HAS to make sure the car is safe to standards way beyond yours. Otherwise the laws say you can sue them. Plus, body work that is done right takes a lot of time. I've done it right, fixed when others didnt, and did it wrong... They all take a lot of time. Then there's the materials. a good base clear two stage paint job, with etch primer and high build, plus the blocking and buffing, is going to cost you over $1300 in materials alone. More if there's any red in it. I would say if they truly laughed it was Bullshit. Customer service starts wth the right attitude and they ain't got it. But from thier position I can see why they would not want to do it, or can't.
 
waggin said:
Not offended by your idea of body guy's,Been doing it for a hobbie for over 28 years now,the problem is that materials and shop time are the best deal for the customer but who can say how long it will actually take to give an accurate estimate?you get started on the job and theres more rust to be repaired before the frame pieces can be put in,the new frame section needs sandblasting and painting theres a lot of unseen work to it,most shops that do give an estimate have to shoot it up to the moon to make sure they don't screw them selves,and to give a customer a good job takes more time than it might seem.that's why a lot of folks here at f.a.b.o. do this work themselves and the paint work and the body work so I guess we all tempermental fume sniffing flakes???.
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You are so right waggin. I have seen my painter friend start projects that just snowball and could take months and never finish. Comparred to that headach he can do 50 insurance jobs.
Like you said, I just do it myself and learn along the way. I have been dabbling in my own automotive repair work for the last 20 years and can fix pretty much anything on my car.
 
The frame on my cuda was rusted out too. I just got a dart parts car and took the front frame, then gave a welding shop my car and the frame......well i still need to bring it to the welding shop, but they said they could do it!:read2:
 
for the most part if it was a friends car we'd jump in up to our neck's and go at it and would have fun doing it but a body shop has overhead and a reputation that needs to be fed...they get fed thru insurance companies and no longer desire "The Challenge"
 
Moderaters, Can you narrow up this thread? It's too wide.
Now back to the issue at hand. I've had "buddies" pull their car in my shop and somewhere in the course of the build they loose interest. Then it just sets tying up valuable space and equipment. They either have honey dos or they are busy playing Nintindo. Don't be one of those guys. There's one at my shop right now that's headed home for the simple reason that the owner has lost interest. The freight bill will be his. Either way just to let you know that what your talking about is a big job and takes a real commitment. Let me know if your serious.
Small Block
 
Looking at the images of the green car, I am concerned that they might be right.
With the front end is down, I am concerned that the torsion bar mount in the rear is gone.
This is a substantial piece of the structure of the car. This is the foundation of the front suspension / torsion bar base.

This is not something that should be fixed with a small MIG welder.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Well.... Honestly... You could go buy a nice driver for less than the shop cost you are looking at.

They were probably helping you out by turning you away.
Click to expand...


They were.

They can't give you an estimate because it will take more time than they could ever think to get it done to your expectations.

I would suggest what someone else did.

Get the bottom sandblasted and frame cap it. Buy a welder and practice or get someone who does weld to give you a few pointers.....it's not hard really.

I bet you dimes to dollars you will spend 1/10th of what the body shop would have to invest to get it done yourself. Just be careful and unload the suspension before you get in there and start cutting and grinding.

Good luck.....there all worth saving if you love them.:love7:
 
v8scamp said:
so i just basically got laughed out of 2 auto body shops today. both told me don't waste my time or money on either of my cars.
my daughters car (71 scamp) needs a complete frame and they both said they wouldn't touch it. they suggested if i HAD to do one they'd swap everything over to my 72 scamp bc at least its solid. also said don't expect to get much for it WHEN i decide to sell. (no thanks for your opinion you richie rich asshole)
mine is just a shell right now with a few dings, a crease on rear quarter(thanks to my "friend" helping me move it today), no rust through on outside of the body, and pin holes in the floors and trunk.
my daughters would be a driver just needs the frame repaired to raise the front end and to have something to mount exhaust to. crappy paint job and not so good body work with decent enough interior. she likes it so that's good enough for me and her.
should i swap everything over and paint and body mine or do the frame repair on hers? my problem is I CAN'T WELD (my reason for going to body shops)so i need someone to do this for me or give me a lot of help and/or guidance.

i'm sure you all know what rusted frame looks like so no pics of those but a few of my 72...and her 71

0629092046.jpg
0629092045.jpg
0629092037.jpg
0629092033.jpg
0629092032.jpg
0629092038.jpg
dsc00132p.jpg
dsc00128nyl.jpg
dsc00129o.jpg
Click to expand...

Hire a local welder. Many are mobile. I have a friend I bribe with $ & beer!
 
I think they're just being honest with you although laughing you out of there is uncalled for.

Basically you're bringing in a $500 car that needs 200+ hours work, with materials and parts you'll be into it for easily 30K+ and have a car worth 15.

Do the work yourself, many of us do with outstanding results, also gives you a better appreciation for what those body shop guys go through. :munky2:
 
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