Winter Upgrades (Feedback wanted)

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roccodart440

roccodart440

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I'm finally getting around to installing my new custom Coan 4500 convertor this winter. I'm also swapping my 2" TTI headers for TTI 2.125" headers.

Since the engine is coming out, I am going to make a few other changes with some dyno time.

Currently I run a 950 Proform carb. It's been ok, but i'm upgrading to a 1050 4150 style custom carb.

I'm also going to install a Jesel Belt drive and play with cam timing. I'll make another post about this topic.

I was considering going to a 1:6 rocker, but unsure if this would be worth it for me and how the engine would like it.

Any other suggestions, comments, please let me know.

====================

Engine is a 440, 340cfm 2.20 eddy perf RPM heads, roller cam 260/.650/112, ported victor, flat tops with 84cc chambers

602hp @ 5,900 / 575ftlbs @ 4500
 
I guess my question is……how much of a gain are you hoping for?

In my mind I see several big ticket items listed, but they seem to me like things that wouldn’t show major power changes.

Hopefully you’ll get a chance to play “engine masters “ on the dyno and find out what it’s all worth.
 
roccodart440 said:
I'm finally getting around to installing my new custom Coan 4500 convertor this winter. I'm also swapping my 2" TTI headers for TTI 2.125" headers.

Since the engine is coming out, I am going to make a few other changes with some dyno time.

Currently I run a 950 Proform carb. It's been ok, but i'm upgrading to a 1050 4150 style custom carb.

I'm also going to install a Jesel Belt drive and play with cam timing. I'll make another post about this topic.

I was considering going to a 1:6 rocker, but unsure if this would be worth it for me and how the engine would like it.

Any other suggestions, comments, please let me know.

====================

Engine is a 440, 340cfm 2.20 eddy perf RPM heads, roller cam 260/.650/112, ported victor, flat tops with 84cc chambers

602hp @ 5,900 / 575ftlbs @ 4500
Click to expand...

What’s your actual bore size and rod length?
 
Most of the stuff u listed is a waist of money. 340 cfm u should be making 680 hp give or take a little. With a .650 lift cam u should have at least a 5000 stall. U don’t have nearly enough hp to up size your headers. These are just my personal opinion. Take them with a grain of salt. Kim
 
PRH said:
I guess my question is……how much of a gain are you hoping for?

In my mind I see several big ticket items listed, but they seem to me like things that wouldn’t show major power changes.

Hopefully you’ll get a chance to play “engine masters “ on the dyno and find out what it’s all worth.
Click to expand...

It will definitely see dyno tuning time after these changes. I have a baseline for power and rpm. I plan to dyno it with both carbs, and then play with cam timing after that, advanced, retarded 2 degrees, and see what it likes and go from there.

My carb has always been deficient, ok at best. The carb to me is worth it.

The headers, my engine builder says it will like the 2.125" vs. 2" TTI's and claims i'll see 10-20 hp from that change. My hope is, maybe they fit better since they were designed for RMS suspension.

I'm a little limited as to what I can actually change with this engine. I'm not changing heads, or intake. They are a matched pair, max ported by Jim Laroy, the last pair he made.

I could change the cam... I've considered that.
 
oldkimmer said:
Most of the stuff u listed is a waist of money. 340 cfm u should be making 680 hp give or take a little. With a .650 lift cam u should have at least a 5000 stall. U don’t have nearly enough hp to up size your headers. These are just my personal opinion. Take them with a grain of salt. Kim
Click to expand...

Compression should be higher, cam is mild.

The convertor was made by Coan for my combo for 99% street use. They said IF it were a race car or a real street strip car that saw a decent amount of track time, they'd set the flash stall to 5k, (500 RPM over max tq)

It is definitely a waste of money!!! I have owned this car for 25 years and have just tried to make it the very best every piece can be.
 
If you are going to run a 4500 dominator style carburetor, it might be better to get the 4500 intake. You maybe leaving HP on the table with the 4150 intake.
 
I always wonder if the person building a car can actually use the horsepower they build.
Unless this is going to be a drag car I don’t see how.

No offense meant, but I know with my mild 5.9 and 3.55 gears there is no way I can drive my car in town to it’s full potential without wrecking the car or going to jail.
 
Demonracer said:
If you are going to run a 4500 dominator style carburetor, it might be better to get the 4500 intake. You maybe leaving HP on the table with the 4150 intake.
Click to expand...

I plan to run a custom 1050cfm, 4150 flange.

The victor intake is deep ported to match the heads.

Do you think the dominator victor, port matched, and a 1050 dominator would be better overall? Keep in mind it sees the strip a few times a year, that's it.
 
TrailBeast said:
I always wonder if the person building a car can actually use the horsepower they build.
Unless this is going to be a drag car I don’t see how.

No offense meant, but I know with my mild 5.9 and 3.55 gears there is no way I can drive my car in town to it’s full potential without wrecking the car or going to jail.
Click to expand...
My car run's 10'son street tires. pump gas an through the muffler's. It will idle and drive around town all day without issue as well.

Can I run it to it's full potential around town power wise, not really, but there is no sacrifice in my case.

What car can you run to it's full power potential around town or on roads? None, at least not legally.
 
Last edited:
If the car only sees the strip occasionally, I don't think you will notice the loss. I thought you might be planning a race only setup.
 
roccodart440 said:
Compression should be higher, cam is mild.

The convertor was made by Coan for my combo for 99% street use. They said IF it were a race car or a real street strip car that saw a decent amount of track time, they'd set the flash stall to 5k, (500 RPM over max tq)

It is definitely a waste of money!!! I have owned this car for 25 years and have just tried to make it the very best every piece can be.
Click to expand...


I forgot to ask about your compression ratio. I looked and didn’t see it. Do you mind posting your CR??
 
Newbomb Turk said:
I forgot to ask about your compression ratio. I looked and didn’t see it. Do you mind posting your CR??
Click to expand...

I just know it has flat tops with 84cc chambers. I bought those pistons 25 years ago and had the closed chamber iron heads at the time.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Ok. I’ll use an online calculator for compression.

I’m going to assume a zero deck. If not, let me know.
Click to expand...

I don't remember if this one was zero decked. I built 2 440's at the same time. One was zero decked for sure. I can't remember if this one was.
 
roccodart440 said:
My car run's 10'son street tires. pump gas an through the muffler's. It will idle and drive around town all day without issue as well.

Can I run it to it's full potential around town power wise, not really, but there is no sacrifice in my case.

What car can you run to it's full power potential around town or on roads? None, at least not legally.
Click to expand...
I do. And it's a blast.
 
From my personal experience, changing a bunch of stuff in the offseason means having to "start over" on a combo tune the next season. It can be frustrating, unless you are in it for the challenge. The challenge with changing several major things at once is you have a hard time understanding what made a difference good or bad. I get the urge to change it all while the car is down, but usually incremental changes are best. I have to fight that urge myself. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy....

As for bang for the buck changes, I have a hard time seeing how going from 2" to 2 1/8" headers will change much. If better fitment is the goal, then that is a different decision metric. The belt drive is cool - but you might be over estimating the utility of making easy cam degree changes. I mean, how often do you foresee doing that? (I say this as a guy with a Milodon gear drive that can also make easy cam degree changes)

I think the best bang for the buck experimentation should focus on Carburetor and Converter changes. BUT, I am a self-taught guy - and make lots of mistakes in order to learn stuff!
 
Vertex_Jeff said:
From my personal experience, changing a bunch of stuff in the offseason means having to "start over" on a combo tune the next season. It can be frustrating, unless you are in it for the challenge. The challenge with changing several major things at once is you have a hard time understanding what made a difference good or bad. I get the urge to change it all while the car is down, but usually incremental changes are best. I have to fight that urge myself. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy....

As for bang for the buck changes, I have a hard time seeing how going from 2" to 2 1/8" headers will change much. If better fitment is the goal, then that is a different decision metric. The belt drive is cool - but you might be over estimating the utility of making easy cam degree changes. I mean, how often do you foresee doing that? (I say this as a guy with a Milodon gear drive that can also make easy cam degree changes)

I think the best bang for the buck experimentation should focus on Carburetor and Converter changes. BUT, I am a self-taught guy - and make lots of mistakes in order to learn stuff!
Click to expand...

The engine was originally dyno'd with 2.125" headers. I already bought the headers

The current convertor doesn't work with this new engine, way too tight. It's an Art Carr 3,500. I have no choice but to change the convertor. I already bought this.

The belt drive will be played with once, on the dyno. Wherever it likes best it will stay.

The new carb will be tuned on the dyno as well, then fine tuned in the car.
 
Didn’t you have a pic of your engine on the dyno with some fender well type headers?
Were those the 2.125” ones?
 
roccodart440 said:
I'm finally getting around to installing my new custom Coan 4500 convertor this winter. I'm also swapping my 2" TTI headers for TTI 2.125" headers.

Since the engine is coming out, I am going to make a few other changes with some dyno time.

Currently I run a 950 Proform carb. It's been ok, but i'm upgrading to a 1050 4150 style custom carb.

I'm also going to install a Jesel Belt drive and play with cam timing. I'll make another post about this topic.

I was considering going to a 1:6 rocker, but unsure if this would be worth it for me and how the engine would like it.

Any other suggestions, comments, please let me know.

====================

Engine is a 440, 340cfm 2.20 eddy perf RPM heads, roller cam 260/.650/112, ported victor, flat tops with 84cc chambers

602hp @ 5,900 / 575ftlbs @ 4500
Click to expand...


Using your numbers and making a decent guess at your compression ratio (looks like it's between 10 and 10.25:1 so I used 10:1) this is what my math says.

BTW, I picked lobes I would use that keep your lift about where it is. And using 1.6 rockers. Valve speed is king if you can control the valve train.

Anyway, the numbers are close to what you have but different.

257
269
104 LSA
101 ICL

Just a quick look at lobes and this is what I'd use if you don't want to change anything.

298/289/257/.656
310/301/269/.640

Don't let the 104 LSA make your nervous. A good tune up and it will idle and drive just fine.
 
TrailBeast said:
I always wonder if the person building a car can actually use the horsepower they build.
Unless this is going to be a drag car I don’t see how.

No offense meant, but I know with my mild 5.9 and 3.55 gears there is no way I can drive my car in town to it’s full potential without wrecking the car or going to jail.
Click to expand...
Exactly! Anything more is just braggin' rights!
 
roccodart440 said:
The engine was originally dyno'd with 2.125" headers. I already bought the headers

The current convertor doesn't work with this new engine, way too tight. It's an Art Carr 3,500. I have no choice but to change the convertor. I already bought this.

The belt drive will be played with once, on the dyno. Wherever it likes best it will stay.

The new carb will be tuned on the dyno as well, then fine tuned in the car.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have a decent plan!
 
roccodart440 said:
It will definitely see dyno tuning time after these changes. I have a baseline for power and rpm. I plan to dyno it with both carbs, and then play with cam timing after that, advanced, retarded 2 degrees, and see what it likes and go from there.

My carb has always been deficient, ok at best. The carb to me is worth it.

The headers, my engine builder says it will like the 2.125" vs. 2" TTI's and claims i'll see 10-20 hp from that change. My hope is, maybe they fit better since they were designed for RMS suspension.

I'm a little limited as to what I can actually change with this engine. I'm not changing heads, or intake. They are a matched pair, max ported by Jim Laroy, the last pair he made.

I could change the cam... I've considered that.
Click to expand...
My 470 header swap from 2 inch fender well to 2.125 tti step under chassis headers was a 26 HP gain.
Surprisingly the fit perfectly in the car with torsion bars .
 
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