You guys got me scared of tti headers!

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doogievlg

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I was planning on pulling the trigger on the headers tomorrow and figured I would do a in depth search on this great forum. Now I am second guessing myself.

The car is a 73 swinger with a small block and power steering. I have been reading threads on guys with Schumacher /6 to small block conversion mounts having problems. This would not be a big deal if I had the biscuit style mounts but I have the spool mounts. I can not shim the motor and I do not want the head ache of wrestling with the engine and headers when I am installing the my rebuilt motor.

Would the shortys be a better option or am I freaking out over nothing. And yes I will be taking the measurements for the engine location but if it is not correct am I just screwed?
 
I tried a set of TTI shorties on the 340 in my Duster. I switched back to my Doug's. The shorties have clearance problems too, just different ones. You can see my write up here My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

Really I think you just have to be prepared to add some dimples to whatever set of headers you buy, TTI's or Doug's. These cars tolerances are different enough that some will work better with TTI's, others will work better with Doug's, and you won't know until you try to install one or the other. Or both. Personally, I like the Doug's better. But on my car with a spool mount K and 1.12" torsion bars I did have to add some dimples to clear the torsion bars. After seeing how the TTI shorties fit though, I wouldn't doubt at all that I would have needed to do the same with the TTI long tubes.
 
Have you measured where your motor sits relative to how TTI builds their headers? You shouldn't have problems if your crankshaft bolt is 5 1/4" from the top of the k frame. The crankshaft bolt should also be 2 1/2" closer to the passenger side frame rail compared to the drivers side frame rail.

Footnote #39
 
Just bought Shorty TTI Headers. Don't worry they fit awesome.

20170905_230339.jpg
 
I was on the fence like you were and decided on Doug's she I was building mine. Power steering, too.

20170521_140723.jpg


Yeah, they're tight and required some dimpling at the 2 center tubes on the driver's side, but nothing crazy.
 
Hot Rod magazine did a dyno test on how the "dents and dimples" we sometimes put in headers affect power. I was shocked to learn that it made very little difference even when the pipes were smashed to the point where they were half crushed!
I know, nobody wants to take a hammer to a set of $ 700 headers. Sometimes you do need to massage them a bit. Maybe place a section of tire sidewall against the pipe before hitting it with a hammer? This should prevent scratches anyway. Good luck with the car.
 
Just bought Shorty TTI Headers. Don't worry they fit awesome.

View attachment 1715099589

But do you have a 4 speed? Or a spool mount K frame? Because I installed them, and I wouldn’t say they fit awesome. I mean, they’re not terrible either, but they have at least as many issues as the Doug’s. The Doug’s long tubes fit my car better than the TTI shorties IMHO. That’s why I put them back on after I installed the shorties.
 
i have full length on 73 with power steering,i had to dimple one spot,and to me that was bullshit.at the cost of headers for our mopars they should fit with no hammering and tweeking.chevy and ford guys dont have these issues.damn torsion bar and ps box location.
 
i have full length on 73 with power steering,i had to dimple one spot,and to me that was bullshit.at the cost of headers for our mopars they should fit with no hammering and tweeking.chevy and ford guys dont have these issues.damn torsion bar and ps box location.

Do you have the Schumacher mounts?
 
I tried a set of TTI shorties on the 340 in my Duster. I switched back to my Doug's. The shorties have clearance problems too, just different ones. You can see my write up here My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

Really I think you just have to be prepared to add some dimples to whatever set of headers you buy, TTI's or Doug's. These cars tolerances are different enough that some will work better with TTI's, others will work better with Doug's, and you won't know until you try to install one or the other. Or both. Personally, I like the Doug's better. But on my car with a spool mount K and 1.12" torsion bars I did have to add some dimples to clear the torsion bars. After seeing how the TTI shorties fit though, I wouldn't doubt at all that I would have needed to do the same with the TTI long tubes.

What motor mounts are you using?
 
Just bought Shorty TTI Headers. Don't worry they fit awesome.

View attachment 1715099589
They did fit on my car but I had to tilt the engine away from the drivers side with a 1/4" washer under the motor mount. Getting the short TTI head-pipes hooked up to the collectors was a major pain in the butt. Attach the head-pipes to them before installing them and you'll be fine.
 
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They did fit on my car but I had to tilt the engine away from the drivers side with a 1/4" washer under the motor mount. Getting the short TTI head-pipes hooked up to the collectors was a major pain in the butt. Attach the head-pipes to the before installing them and you'll be fine.

I do not have the biscuit style mounts to use a washer or shim. They are the spool style mounts so there will be no moving the engine.
 
I do not have the biscuit style mounts to use a washer or shim. They are the spool style mounts so there will be no moving the engine.

Thats not correct. I have '73 spool (and TTi long tubes) & found a way to "shim" the driver side. It was easy too. Where there is a will ~ there is a way.
 
Hot Rod magazine did a dyno test on how the "dents and dimples" we sometimes put in headers affect power. I was shocked to learn that it made very little difference even when the pipes were smashed to the point where they were half crushed

I'm calling "bullshit" on that article..run the car down the 1/4 with those smashed headers..then put on ones that aren't smashed the car will run quicker with the un'smashed ones..I saw the video of that those 2 are a couple of clowns:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Thats not correct. I have '73 spool (and TTi long tubes) & found a way to "shim" the driver side. It was easy too. Where there is a will ~ there is a way.

How on earth would you do that? Did you take them off the k member and put a shim between it and the mount? I don't see how you could shim between the mount and the engine though.
 
How on earth would you do that? Did you take them off the k member and put a shim between it and the mount? I don't see how you could shim between the mount and the engine though.
Simple, you can grind the slot for the thru' bolt to drop it a little depending on pan to k-frame room etc., and You can grind/cut to fit a washer for the thru' bolt to tack weld
to the spool mount ears on the frame so that the bolt stops higher, You might have to cut the washers on the nut/bolt to clear the rolled edge. Or, if You know exactly
how much You're going to raise it You could MIG the bottom of the slot up.
 
Simple, you can grind the slot for the thru' bolt to drop it a little depending on pan to k-frame room etc., and You can grind/cut to fit a washer for the thru' bolt to tack weld
to the spool mount ears on the frame so that the bolt stops higher, You might have to cut the washers on the nut/bolt to clear the rolled edge. Or, if You know exactly
how much You're going to raise it You could MIG the bottom of the slot up.

You and I have different deffintitions of simple.
 
You and I have different deffintitions of simple.
LOL!! Sorry,...well, installing headers in an A-body is rarely any simpler....the better the header the less hassles there are. They're not going to get much better than the
examples discussed here, so............
 
Just get the long-tubes with an H already.
After they're on, you'll never regret it it. Drive them for a week and you'll forget all about the fussing. After a year of quiet leak-free service you will be a happy camper. After 3 years still never having had to tighten the manifold bolts, and never smooshed a pipe on a speed bump, despite hammering over them,these early days will be a distant fading memory. At the 12 year mark, now on the second set of gaskets, and maybe sealing the merges a time or two,you will be right here on FABO,extolling them. After 18 years, hmmmmm, Hyup, I'm still impressed. I paid $495(uncoated),a lotta cash for me, in 99, I think the first year they came out. That works out to $27.50 per year. By the year;the cheapest headers I ever bought.
Oh, and btw, the first 5 years they were on there, the car was a 4-seasons DD. At the 15 year mark, they had over 100,000 miles on them, probably closer to 120,000.
 
Not to scare you but;
on the initial install, back out the T-bars, bolt the headers on with just two bolts, then bring the bars back in. Make sure you have at least 1/4 inch clearance all round the bars. BASH the tubes, already!! Just bash 'em in the right place, the right amount and then forget about the event forever. Get a fence-post-sledge, like a 5 pounder, it's way easier to control the force than wailing on the pipe with a 10oz toy-hammer; those TTIs are real metal! For forming,use a solid bar,bigger than the t-bar, and properly support the tube you're pounding on. With the 5 pounder, don't give it all you got,lol, easy does it. Each successive drop will require just a bit more force.
When you back out the T-bar adjusters, with the wheels hanging down, count the turns, and put 'em back to that, later.Don't be afraid of this, it's no big deal. Besides, you just might find out that your LCA bushings have turned to jelly, lol, and you'll have to deal with that, BEFORE smooshing the tubes.This is because after the new bushings are in, the bars will be in a different spot, and you might have to re-adjust your smooshing,lol.
Get yourself a case of shorty oil-filters. 51085 IIRC.
IIRC, the driver-side goes in from the bottom.......... Or was it the passenger-side?............ or maybe it was both sides...........Oh heck I forget; it was like 2005, the last time they were out. OK I think the D-side had to go in from the top, and the P-side from the bottom, And maybe the engine was suspended from the picker, soz I could push it around some? Yeah that sounds about right,lol.
 
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Call and speak to tti and they will tell you if they will fit with different types of mounts or what ever else you have.Talk directly with them on the phone
 
i have full length on 73 with power steering,i had to dimple one spot,and to me that was bullshit.at the cost of headers for our mopars they should fit with no hammering and tweeking.chevy and ford guys dont have these issues.damn torsion bar and ps box location.

It's a tight fit and the tolerances on these cars are like +/- 1/4". On some cars there's no hammering and tweaking, on others there are. If I ran stock torsion bars with an automatic transmission on my car there would have been no dimpling or tweaking at at all with the Doug's. But I run 1.12" bars with a 4 speed and use a milodon road race pan, so, my options were limited to adding some small dimples for my torsion bars.

What motor mounts are you using?

I'm using stock spool mounts with polyurethane replacement inserts. I have a V8 spool K frame. I haven't taken a survey or anything, but it seems to me that folks that run spool mount K's seem to have better luck with Doug's compared to TTI's. I'm sure there are exceptions, because with the factory tolerances these cars had there will always be exceptions.

I love the Doug's on my car, I wouldn't buy TTI's again. Just not very impressive for the price, the coating looked like cheap aluminum spray paint. You can get the Doug's from Autozone sometimes with a 20% online discount that they run.

Simple, you can grind the slot for the thru' bolt to drop it a little depending on pan to k-frame room etc., and You can grind/cut to fit a washer for the thru' bolt to tack weld
to the spool mount ears on the frame so that the bolt stops higher, You might have to cut the washers on the nut/bolt to clear the rolled edge. Or, if You know exactly
how much You're going to raise it You could MIG the bottom of the slot up.

Yeah, ok. And everytime you adjust the depth of the slot you're going to have to pull the engine and headers or drop the K frame while supporting the engine to either get in there with a MIG or a grinder (or both). And you won't get it right the first time, so, you're going to do that a couple of times. Yes, sure, I see your point there are ways to adjust the engine height with the spool mounts. But that's not anywhere near the same league of modification as adding a shim or two under the biscuit mounts. And on my car at least there's nothing that a 1/4" up or down would have solved anyway. But I have a few complicating factors with the size of the torsion bars I run, plus the 4 speed linkage, road race pan, different shape to the flaming river steering box, etc.
 
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