Deciding on replacement intake (318, details in post)

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Current engine/drivetrain in my valiant is as follows:

318
167 KB pistons
360 heads ported
Lopey Isky cam (exact spec unknown but it seems there’s only 2)
Solid lifters
273 rockers
HEI distributor
Tunnel ram w/dual 450 carbs
Long tube headers
4 speed
3.91 explorer rear w/locker

There may be other mods as well but these are not known to me, no idea on output but it runs healthily and pushes the car along very nicely.


It may seem mad to some but my intention is to remove the tunnel ram & 450s and replace with something I can either get under the hood or a low hood scoop.

Reading on intake choice has pickled my newbie brain - air gap, RPM, or an altogether different choice? Car is not a daily driver, weekend/sunny day fun and the odd trip down the strip.

Advice is always appreciated.
My opinion with that combo, a tunnel ram isn't needed. Mess with it if you want to. A 318 with those parts will only put out so many horsepower and a dual quad tunnel ram won't make the numbers go up much more than single 4 barrel and a good manifold. (Air gap or the like and a 650 as an example)
 
At least he's got the KB167's. Starting out at zero deck (or .001 below) is a good start. All the charts say 65-73cc for the 360 heads. How much compression with a .027 or a .040 head gasket? And yes, the op should do a compression test to make sure. There are a lot of unknown's here.
I did the math.
On a 9.600 LA-deck, the 167s math to .0095 below deck. that is ~1.87cc
The pistons, as far as I can tell, have 5cc eyebrows.
the .028 gaskets are ~6.8cc
The 360 heads, by all accounts are usually ~72cc. I have none smaller.
Throw in 1cc for the crevice volume
That totals 86.7cc

at 3.91bore, the swept is 652.27
That makes an Scr of 8.52

The .028 gaskets need a rough deck, else the fire-rings like to migrate, and it doesn't take long.
With the .039 FelPros, the numbers work out to
(652.27 + 88.5)/88.5 = 8.37


Plugging that into the Wallace with a modest cam (Ica of 66*) at 500ft elevation (guessing OPs elevation); I get
Static compression ratio of 8.37:1.
Effective stroke is 2.52 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 6.60:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 124.24 PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 6.50 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 90


V/P of 90 is just about 3% stronger than a factory 225 slanty.
The Effective DCR of 6.5, is about 1.5 points low and;
and Cylinder pressure of 124psi, is a good 30 psi low for open-chamber heads, and the Q is so huge as to be ineffective.
If OP had a stock convertor and hiway gears, this would be guaranteed to be sluggish to around 3000 to 3500 rpm.
Thankfully he has a manual-trans and 3.91s..

Op said
Advice is always appreciated.
My advice still stands. but now with a low cylinder pressure design), I would add; Notta chance would I run this engine, in it's current iteration, with any other cam but the factory-sized one. With an Ica of 48*, the numbers improve to
Static compression ratio of 8.37:1.
Effective stroke is 2.89 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.43:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 145.79
PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 7.33 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 121

VP of 121 is similar to a stock 5.2 Magnum. I could live with that..... if I had to.

But If it was mine;
I'd still run a compression test to see how bad it is. Then if it sux as bad as I suspect, then
I'd Zero deck it rough, to hold those .028s, then install 60cc closed-chamber iron, small-port heads. With an Scr now of 9.85, a Q of .028, and modest cam with an Ica of say 60* , the picture changes to

Static compression ratio of 9.85:1.
Effective stroke is 2.66 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.10:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 163.55
PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 8.00 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 125

Now you got an engine!

Couple this with the 4-gear and 3.91s, and you are guaranteed to have fun in any A-body, and especially so in a light-weight Valiant.
To save a lil cash, I'd try it with the current decks and .028s, for a Q of .038ish; but the heads gotta be closed-chamber. and the intake I would use, would have ports matched to the head, and a Thermoquad.
But,
I have this Dual-Port, I got from a member here a few years ago, that I've always wanted to use on something.
Ima thinking Magnum heads and a port-match, to go with that lopey cam. Or, I'd really like to try the stock 360 sized cam, with this intake;
Static compression ratio of 9.6:1.
Effective stroke is 2.78 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.21:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 166.49
PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 8.11 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 133

Oh yeah, this is starting to look like fun.........


Since the current cam already has a lopey idle, I'd screw the Magnums on, or any aftermarket closed chamber LA-heads and redo the compression test. If it ain't too bad, then, with the OPs 4-speed, and 3.91s, I'd try it.
So, at this point, my only cost is the closed-chamber heads and gaskets, cuz I already have a spreadbore intake, and matching 4-bbl.
If the heads I get have small-ports, I have this small-plenum Excelerator looking for a home.................

Like @toolmanmike said;
There are a lot of unknown's here.
I just narrowed it down some .....................
 
I did the math.
On a 9.600 LA-deck, the 167s math to .0095 below deck. that is ~1.87cc
The pistons, as far as I can tell, have 5cc eyebrows.
the .028 gaskets are ~6.8cc
The 360 heads, by all accounts are usually ~72cc. I have none smaller.
Throw in 1cc for the crevice volume
That totals 86.7cc

at 3.91bore, the swept is 652.27
That makes an Scr of 8.52

The .028 gaskets need a rough deck, else the fire-rings like to migrate, and it doesn't take long.
With the .039 FelPros, the numbers work out to
(652.27 + 88.5)/88.5 = 8.37


Plugging that into the Wallace with a modest cam (Ica of 66*) at 500ft elevation (guessing OPs elevation); I get
Static compression ratio of 8.37:1.
Effective stroke is 2.52 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 6.60:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 124.24 PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 6.50 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 90


V/P of 90 is just about 3% stronger than a factory 225 slanty.
The Effective DCR of 6.5, is about 1.5 points low and;
and Cylinder pressure of 124psi, is a good 30 psi low for open-chamber heads, and the Q is so huge as to be ineffective.
If OP had a stock convertor and hiway gears, this would be guaranteed to be sluggish to around 3000 to 3500 rpm.
Thankfully he has a manual-trans and 3.91s..

Op said

My advice still stands. but now with a low cylinder pressure design), I would add; Notta chance would I run this engine, in it's current iteration, with any other cam but the factory-sized one. With an Ica of 48*, the numbers improve to
Static compression ratio of 8.37:1.
Effective stroke is 2.89 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.43:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 145.79
PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 7.33 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 121

VP of 121 is similar to a stock 5.2 Magnum. I could live with that..... if I had to.

But If it was mine;
I'd still run a compression test to see how bad it is. Then if it sux as bad as I suspect, then
I'd Zero deck it rough, to hold those .028s, then install 60cc closed-chamber iron, small-port heads. With an Scr now of 9.85, a Q of .028, and modest cam with an Ica of say 60* , the picture changes to

Static compression ratio of 9.85:1.
Effective stroke is 2.66 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.10:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 163.55
PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 8.00 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 125

Now you got an engine!

Couple this with the 4-gear and 3.91s, and you are guaranteed to have fun in any A-body, and especially so in a light-weight Valiant.
To save a lil cash, I'd try it with the current decks and .028s, for a Q of .038ish; but the heads gotta be closed-chamber. and the intake I would use, would have ports matched to the head, and a Thermoquad.
But,
I have this Dual-Port, I got from a member here a few years ago, that I've always wanted to use on something.
Ima thinking Magnum heads and a port-match, to go with that lopey cam. Or, I'd really like to try the stock 360 sized cam, with this intake;
Static compression ratio of 9.6:1.
Effective stroke is 2.78 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.21:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 166.49
PSI.
Your effective boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of PSI is 8.11 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 133

Oh yeah, this is starting to look like fun.........


Since the current cam already has a lopey idle, I'd screw the Magnums on, or any aftermarket closed chamber LA-heads and redo the compression test. If it ain't too bad, then, with the OPs 4-speed, and 3.91s, I'd try it.
So, at this point, my only cost is the closed-chamber heads and gaskets, cuz I already have a spreadbore intake, and matching 4-bbl.
If the heads I get have small-ports, I have this small-plenum Excelerator looking for a home.................

Like @toolmanmike said;

I just narrowed it down some .....................
all that figuring is just mused ramblings till you know witch of the 6 sbm solid tappet cams isky makes that he's running, and its IVC point!! with isky solid tappet grinds with lifts from .425 to .580 and duration's from 216 to 312 there's no guessing where that IVC point is and isky ant sharing that info ether....id really like to know my self....i just hate guessing!
 
Well that escalated :lol:

Compression test results to follow some point over the festive period

measured up and its possible to keep the tunnel ram, do away with the velocity stacks and fit a hood scoop - bit that comes with its’ own ups and downs.

Merry Christmas/happy holidays
 
Well it look longer to get round to than hoped but I managed to get the compression figures. All 160 or close enough, the gauge is in 5psi increments and the needle was either tipped just under or over the mark. Warm engine (idling 15 mins)

Now who would like to do the math :D
 
Well it look longer to get round to than hoped but I managed to get the compression figures. All 160 or close enough, the gauge is in 5psi increments and the needle was either tipped just under or over the mark. Warm engine (idling 15 mins)

Now who would like to do the math :D
Have you been driving the car ?
Does it work fine ?
If so does it really matter if the cr is a bit low ?

Your not gonna know unless you take it apart and measure, AJ's math is based of a bunch of assumptions like the builder didn't do any milling to get a decent cr and picked cam with a poor ICA, for the build based on nothing.

And in the end of the day AJ think 318's are worthless performers even if build to his liking.
 
If you did get to drive it with the tunnel ram how did she run?
 
Yeah, the car pulls well for what I want - that’s not been an issue. Im curious more than anything to know what it’s making so some dyno time is in order. Would also benefit from some carb tuning no doubt - that’s beyond me, I need to learn about it
 
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