1 3/4" Headers Verses 1 7/8" on a Healthy 408....Is There a Big Difference??

[flyfish]

Since you already have basically a race type header I’m betting you see little to no gain. The exhaust ports on the Edelbrock heads are so screwed up shape wise you are pissing into the wind. I aim for port air speed rather than a flow number and although I always post flow numbers without tubes have tested and played around with different tubing sizes. Invest your money somewhere else.

I was wondering about this (the exhaust port). I remember way back when Ryan Johnson ported my Edelbrocks he said that the exhaust numbers were not that great due to the port shape....he also said he didn't spend a lot of time on the exhaust port because there was more to be gained on the intake side.

 

[flyfish]

i have no answer to your question, but would love to see a test.....i´m in the middle of installing the hedman 1 7/8" in my car....don´t know when i´ll be able to go to a track this year. Motor is also disassembled, crank thrust bearing damaged - waiting for a new crank. What kind of collector extensions do you run with your current headers?

Michael

Most of the time I just leave my exhaust on the car (3" Dynomax race bullets). I have yet to try extensions on the collectors...I should add that to my "to do list" this year.

 

[33IMP]

Take the money burning a hole in your pocket, go to the nearest casino, walk up to the roulette table, and plunk it down on red, or black. If you win, buy the big headers, they're free.
If you lose, you still have a good set of headers on a low ten second car. STILL a big win in my book!

 

[flyfish]

All this header talk in many ways is directed at people who want to get every hundredth out of a car they can.... class racers, etc, etc.
Me, ... not so much. Whether my car runs 10.65 or 10.75 because of using one header or another, I could care less at this point. I am going to bracket and index race it, so every last tenth isnt needed.
I have to look at ease of installing, cost, and other factors first.
If i cared about going fast, i wouldnt be sticking tiny eddie heads on a 418 inch motor in the first place..lol. Or for that matter, even Trick flows, if i had them... too small as well
I will know if it runs as it should, that's good enough for me at this point.

I'm a bracket racer too....but I keep getting that itch to go just a liiiiiiiitle bit faster, LOL. I probably should just leave it alone and keep the money for incase I kill my old 8 3/4....I named that rear end "borrowed time"

 

[B3422w5]

Well, if you've got a "stout 408" WHAT exactly are your intentions if not to get all the power you can from a small block in the first place? lol So yeah, I agree with your cylinder head assessment 100% Can somebody say Trick Flow or Indy?

Trick flow heads arent gonna get all the power possible out of a stroker either. They are dinky 190cc heads.
I have already had 9 sec street driven N/A smallblocks.
This new build is all about having a respectable 10 sec, reliable, repeatable, car. Spending another grand on headers to maybe make it go a tenth faster isn't important to me.
Frankly, i am worried about the 8.75 holding up with what i have, as is, already.
When you think this stuff through, and have had a bunch of these type motors( i have) there are more considerations to take into account than those who haven't done them are sometimes aware of.
For instance, bet my car would also be faster if it didn't have a flat hood, but it does, and i like it. Would also be faster if it wasnt 3300+ with me in it. But i don't want any fiberglass on it, or gutted interior, etc, etc.
Everybody has different priorities.

 

[B3422w5]

I'm a bracket racer too....but I keep getting that itch to go just a liiiiiiiitle bit faster, LOL. I probably should just leave it alone and keep the money for incase I kill my old 8 3/4....I named that rear end "borrowed time"

i HAD that same itch. Ended up going 9.60’s on super stock springs at 3350 on 10 inch bias DOT tires( QTP’s), for years, with a small block.
I am 65, so, been there, done that.
My priority now is to never have to open the hood, reliability, and not spend every dime i have on racing. Believe me, took me a long time to get over, but i fortunately have.
Wife likes going out on the boat, we vacation 5/6 weeks a year in winter out of the country. I am happy just getting what i have to run like its supposed to for what it is.

 

[yellow rose]

All this header talk in many ways is directed at people who want to get every hundredth out of a car they can.... class racers, etc, etc.
Me, ... not so much. Whether my car runs 10.65 or 10.75 because of using one header or another, I could care less at this point. I am going to bracket and index race it, so every last tenth isnt needed.
I have to look at ease of installing, cost, and other factors first.
If i cared about going fast, i wouldnt be sticking tiny eddie heads on a 418 inch motor in the first place..lol. Or for that matter, even Trick flows, if i had them... too small as well
I will know if it runs as it should, that's good enough for me at this point.

Very true. I learned at age 17 I hated cheap headers. So I just never compromise on that.

I think if you change headers and do nothing else and you gain 15 HP that’s a HUGE gain on a tuned engine. I lose sleep at night over less than that.

I was born a generation too late. Maybe two.

 

[yellow rose]

Trick flow heads arent gonna get all the power possible out of a stroker either. They are dinky 190cc heads.
I have already had 9 sec street driven N/A smallblocks.
This new build is all about having a respectable 10 sec, reliable, repeatable, car. Spending another grand on headers to maybe make it go a tenth faster isn't important to me.
Frankly, i am worried about the 8.75 holding up with what i have, as is, already.
When you think this stuff through, and have had a bunch of these type motors( i have) there are more considerations to take into account than those who haven't done them are sometimes aware of.
For instance, bet my car would also be faster if it didn't have a flat hood, but it does, and i like it. Would also be faster if it wasnt 3300+ with me in it. But i don't want any fiberglass on it, or gutted interior, etc, etc.
Everybody has different priorities.

I should have read this post before I posted in your other post.

Exactly correct. You have to get your priorities down. What you can and can’t live with and then stick to those. It starts eating cash right quick. You now have parts that do like or even hate each other and so performance is shot and your wallet is empty.


It’s about compromises.

 

[B3422w5]

Very true. I learned at age 17 I hated cheap headers. So I just never compromise on that.

I think if you change headers and do nothing else and you gain 15 HP that’s a HUGE gain on a tuned engine. I lose sleep at night over less than that.

I was born a generation too late. Maybe two.

I agree. But, with many people, chasing that 15 horse maybe having to cut holes in my car i don't want to do isn't worth it to install them.
If i had a stock or super stocker.. heck yes

 

[MOPARMAGA]

I've got some money burning a hole in my pocket, and I'm wondering if it would make any real difference swapping from my current 1 3/4" Headman Hustlers to the 1 7/8" Headman Hustlers. I think my engine is right on the boarder of "needing" 1 7/8" headers, but I'm not sure if I would gain much (if any) with the swap.

My car, incase you are not familiar:

67 Barracuda (about 3250# with me), 408 stroker, 13:1 compression on e85, ported Edelbrocks, 264/268 duration @ 0.05 with 0.621/0.632 lift solid flat tappet, Victor intake, 727 with 8" converter, 4.10 gear, 275/60/r15 Hooiser DR.

Current best 10.1x @ 130mph, but usually runs 10.3x in the summer heat.

I would just hate to spend the time and money on new headers if they don't to squat....or slow the car down.

Thoughts?

Maybe try tuning your collector length first before buying a new set of headers

 

[perfacar]

years ago, i had 235/273 dart drag car, I had 1 5/8 headers on it, i swapped to 1 3/4 headers at the track, car went 4 tenths faster,. no other changes. just food for thought. not to beat a dead horse, lol

 

[B3422w5]

years ago, i had 235/273 dart drag car, I had 1 5/8 headers on it, i swapped to 1 3/4 headers at the track, car went 4 tenths faster,. no other changes. just food for thought. not to beat a dead horse, lol

So probably 50-75 horse?
OK

 

[stroker402]

years ago, i had 235/273 dart drag car, I had 1 5/8 headers on it, i swapped to 1 3/4 headers at the track, car went 4 tenths faster,. no other changes. just food for thought. not to beat a dead horse, lol

perfacar ... how radical was that 273 engine in your race car ? assume the 1 3/4 headers were fenderwells correct?

 

[perfacar]

it was a 235/ 273, had a cam dynamics stocker cam, stock comp ratio, stock rods, heads and intake manifold, carb. 5.57 gear 28 "x 8" tires. stock 4 speed trans . 3150# race weight. class was J/S. yes both sets were fenderwell style. it was an eye opener, since mopar said they were too big. I think outside the box a lot.

 

[moparstud440]

years ago, i had 235/273 dart drag car, I had 1 5/8 headers on it, i swapped to 1 3/4 headers at the track, car went 4 tenths faster,. no other changes. just food for thought. not to beat a dead horse, lol

I'm thinking your combo is on the larger end of the spectrum. Must been something that it REALLY likes about the bigger headers, but I think for the vast majority people aren't going to see that big of a gain from a header swap.

On my one car (mild 440) I went from 2" hooker fenderwell to 2" TTI headers with very minimal difference. Now in that process I did remove the inner fenderwells and ran a bar from the cage to the front of the frame to tie the shock brace to, so it wasn't apples to apples. Last year I had 1 3/4" TTI on the car (2" were just to big of a pain to work in) but this winter I put my 2" hookers back on. Curious to see if I pick up any or not as that is the only change I have made.

 

[flyfish]

Well, I think I decided to put the money away for a "rainy day" fund for my 8 3/4....someday that thing will give up and I will have to replace it with a dana or 9", but hopefully not soon.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Well, I think I decided to put the money away for a "rainy day" fund for my 8 3/4....someday that thing will give up and I will have to replace it with a dana or 9", but hopefully not soon.

smart man. Many of these posts touch on the same thought as I use. Get your combo right and get it tuned properly and going from a 1 3/4 header to a 1 7/8 would be a marginal gain. Especially like I said earlier with a fudged up exhaust sharped port on a stock or Edelbrock style of head. When I track tune a start out at improving and maximizing my 60 foot times, then 330, and then worry about my 1/8 mile time. The further down the track you go the easier it becomes. And the earlier you make the improvements the better the ET slip looks. It’s not rocket science but it is science.

 

[rumblefish360]

It’s called one step at a time.
(1 change at a time.)
It works for new guy or the seasoned vet.

 

[stroker402]

it was a 235/ 273, had a cam dynamics stocker cam, stock comp ratio, stock rods, heads and intake manifold, carb. 5.57 gear 28 "x 8" tires. stock 4 speed trans . 3150# race weight. class was J/S. yes both sets were fenderwell style. it was an eye opener, since mopar said they were too big. I think outside the box a lot.

If I new what the hedman 1 3/4" fender well headers looked like, I'd probally buy a set. I tried to get a pic of what they looked like from hedman with no luck. they just told me it's just a down size version of the 1 7/8" headers. Early A body that is . I had the 1 7/8" hedman fenderwells on my 65 dart and loved them.
If anyone has had a set of 1 3/4" hedman fenderwell headers on their early abodies , post a pic here .

 

[flyfish]

The Headman Huslers only have tubes 7 & 8 exit through the fender. The 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 use the same patteren, just one is larger. First pic is from Summit, second is one I found on my phone of my (very dirty, apologies) car...Not a good picture, but you get the idea.

 

[pittsburghracer]

The Headman Huslers only have tubes 7 & 8 exit through the fender. The 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 use the same patteren, just one is larger. First pic is from Summit, second is one I found on my phone of my (very dirty, apologies) car...Not a good picture, but you get the idea.

View attachment 1715703965View attachment 1715703964

I have two sets of the 1 7/8 and I love the ones with the W2 bolt pattern. At least they aren’t sguished it to make room for the bolts.

 

[perfacar]

I'm thinking your combo is on the larger end of the spectrum. Must been something that it REALLY likes about the bigger headers, but I think for the vast majority people aren't going to see that big of a gain from a header swap.

On my one car (mild 440) I went from 2" hooker fenderwell to 2" TTI headers with very minimal difference. Now in that process I did remove the inner fenderwells and ran a bar from the cage to the front of the frame to tie the shock brace to, so it wasn't apples to apples. Last year I had 1 3/4" TTI on the car (2" were just to big of a pain to work in) but this winter I put my 2" hookers back on. Curious to see if I pick up any or not as that is the only change I have made.

the car was driven on the street at times, was not radical in any way. 273 had a small cam, 244 dur .425 lift.advertised dur.

 

[Hysteric]

My machinist tells me he built a Edelbrock headed 408 that made 579HP on the dyno with 10-1 comp a 252/260 solid cam with 1 3/4 pipes.

Edit: Should know soon what it actually makes when it runs shortly with the track opening again and competition starting again.

 

[stroker402]

The Headman Huslers only have tubes 7 & 8 exit through the fender. The 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 use the same patteren, just one is larger. First pic is from Summit, second is one I found on my phone of my (very dirty, apologies) car...Not a good picture, but you get the idea.

View attachment 1715703965View attachment 1715703964

yes ...... those headers are 67 and up abody right ? not early abody

 

[stroker402]

the car was driven on the street at times, was not radical in any way. 273 had a small cam, 244 dur .425 lift.advertised dur.

how did that fairly stock 273 engine cut off 4 tenths just from switching 1 5/8 header to 1 3/4 ? did you rev it to the moon ? tell us the secret . lol